3rd amendment (again)

[Adam W]

I understand with the new amendment, new consumer units will have to be made of a 'non-combustible material' (ie metal).
Does this apply to commercial premises or just domestic?
The reason I ask is I have to replace a DB in a semi-enclosed area (basically a gazebo) which was previously metal but the cover has rusted off. Would this now have to be replaced with another metal one, or being a commercial property could it be replaced with a plastic, water resistant one?

On a side note how will this affect the installation of water resistant plastic CUs in domestic properties?

 

[Anthony S]

Its not even come into force yet and get yourself a new book.

 

[Octopus]

Hum... its in the new book but not due to come into "force" until 1st Jan 2016 and its my understanding that its domestic only.... which would suggest industrial CU's never go up in flames!

 

[test electrical]

Not to worry it doesn't say it has to be metal just non-combustible which is fire and temperature rate to BS some thing or another, which is in the quick guide. ALot of the the CUs or already there just getting shot of the cheap **** counterfeit stuff which has flooded the market from china and so on.Any jobs that start after July that will run on more than December have to be done up to this standard.So if you have 200 houses to do on the same contract or a big --- factory get the new Book.ill be getting it in PDF when it comes out so look out for the hyper link.

 

[halseyelectrics]

Hi all,
I would lie know what is needed to compile to 3rd amendment with regards to sealing metal D/B where cables enter ie stuff glands ? acceptable or not

 

[Adam W]

Probably should have posted this in the arms.

 

[Guest125]

Hi all,
I would lie know what is needed to compile to 3rd amendment with regards to sealing metal D/B where cables enter ie stuff glands ? acceptable or not

There is nothing in the new amendment regarding the sealing of holes etc. Standard practice is fine. The new amendment is not there to stop the spreading of fire but only so that the distribution board is non-combustable and will not catch fire.

 

[Adam W]

Hum... its in the new book but not due to come into "force" until 1st Jan 2016 and its my understanding that its domestic only.... which would suggest industrial CU's never go up in flames!

Well it seems to be the general consensus on here that CUs only go up in flames because they're not installed properly, and not because they're made out of plastic.
Reasons for a CU not having been installed properly could be that they were installed by a DIYer, or by a tradesman whose training and level of expertise only extends as far as domestic and is therefore considerably more limited than that of an electrician who does commercial and industrial work.

So, another (potentially serious) problem where we can point the finger of blame squarely at the DIYer/Electrical Trainee.

It will be interesting to see if the likes of B&Q continue selling plastic CUs after the amendment comes into force; wherever there is a market for bending the rules, big companies with big legal departments always seem to work a way around legislation, rendering it a pointless hindrance for those who were doing things properly in the first place.

 

[Anthony S]

There will nothing in the law to prevent any shop selling plastic consumer units and why would there be ? its a free market place.

 

[Plonker 3]

It just becomes a problem when the customer says, well the man in B&Q said its fine for what I need it for.

 

[ruston]

I understand with the new amendment, new consumer units will have to be made of a 'non-combustible material' (ie metal).
Does this apply to commercial premises or just domestic?
The reason I ask is I have to replace a DB in a semi-enclosed area (basically a gazebo) which was previously metal but the cover has rusted off. Would this now have to be replaced with another metal one, or being a commercial property could it be replaced with a plastic, water resistant one?

On a side note how will this affect the installation of water resistant plastic CUs in domestic properties?

They should have a LABEL (sic) on them to say that they may not comply with the wiring regulations from January 2016. (BS 7671 will probably not mean anything to most of the public.)

I still feel it is wrong to be selling equipment with a high installation cost to unsuspecting people, not being sure it will comply in less than a years time.

Adam , I quoted the wrong post lol. It was meant to be your other one. Post 8

 

[Pete999]

Don't think people need to worry it will all be sorted soon enough, won't it? please say yes.

 

[ruston]

I doubt it , they have lost enough credibility now to backtrack. The hole they have dug will just get deeper, never mind they can fill it with thousands of pounds worth of perfectly serviceable consumer units and some unfortunate people's hard earned cash.

 

[Adam W]

They should have a LABEL (sic) on them to say that they may not comply with the wiring regulations from January 2016. (BS 7671 will probably not mean anything to most of the public.)

I still feel it is wrong to be selling equipment with a high installation cost to unsuspecting people, not being sure it will comply in less than a years time.

Adam , I quoted the wrong post lol. It was meant to be your other one. Post 8

Of course as with all amendments they won't be retrospective, so they won't make any existing dangerous CUs any safer, and there will be no requirement to go out and change them.
If plastic CUs can still be used in commercial and industrial situations though, is it appropriate for home DIY shops to carry on selling them to DIYers who are obviously going to be installing them at home?
It was the same with tungsten filament light bulbs - they were 'banned' by the EU, but there was an exception where you could still use rough service bulbs, so the shops just started selling them as that.
I can see it being the same with plastic CUs - B&Q can put 'commercial use only' in small writing in the corner of the box for Mr DIY to ignore and install in his house anyway; it's not as if the electrical police are going to come and kick his door down and carbon date his CU.

 

[ruston]

Bit of a licence for the unprincipled to make a few quid though too.

 

[ferg]

I imagine they would be able to sell them legitimately as they would comply if installed in a fireproof enclosure.

 

[ruston]

I imagine they would be able to sell them legitimately as they would comply if installed in a fireproof enclosure.

Yes, then another can of worms is opened as how you prove it is fireproof. A manufactured enclosure will likely cost more than the new board. Here we go round the Mullberry bush lol.

 

[Pete999]

Ive been an avid reader of the threads regarding non combustible CUs, everyone and their dog are talking about metal CUs, a couple of points.

We aren't what the outcome will be yet, I agree it's looking likely that the domestic CU will be made of metal, which brings me to my second point, how on earth are the powers that be going to get over cable access, we all know, or at least most of us do, the method of cable entry in metal CUs is via knockouts specifically designed for either conduit or cable glands. I can't for the life of me think Mr and Mrs Joe public will put up with conduit protruding from the ceiling to allow cable entry, no they will want a nice neat box on the wall that they can forget about until something goes wrong.

The only way I can see of overcoming this problem, should the decision be made to instal metal CUs would be to have an area, or areas depending upon the fixing and cable entry position, made of some sort of flameproof pliable self sealing material (if one exists) to allow the cables to be pushed through. Or am I living in a fantasy world honest answers only please, I'm in one of my more thoughtful moods.

 

[ferg]

Ive been an avid reader of the threads regarding non combustible CUs, everyone and their dog are talking about metal CUs, a couple of points.

We aren't what the outcome will be yet, I agree it's looking likely that the domestic CU will be made of metal, which brings me to my second point, how on earth are the powers that be going to get over cable access, we all know, or at least most of us do, the method of cable entry in metal CUs is via knockouts specifically designed for either conduit or cable glands. I can't for the life of me think Mr and Mrs Joe public will put up with conduit protruding from the ceiling to allow cable entry, no they will want a nice neat box on the wall that they can forget about until something goes wrong.

The only way I can see of overcoming this problem, should the decision be made to instal metal CUs would be to have an area, or areas depending upon the fixing and cable entry position, made of some sort of flameproof pliable self sealing material (if one exists) to allow the cables to be pushed through. Or am I living in a fantasy world honest answers only please, I'm in one of my more thoughtful moods.

There are already intumescent inserts available for back boxes so it's not such a leap to have a pad with knockouts at the rear of the CU.

 

[ruston]

No doubt, in time ,manufactures will come up with a metal board that will be aesthetically pleasing, they managed ok with some Hi fi',s and the like.