bathroom down lights - notifiable?

[penguinlicker]

good afternoon.

ive got a chap coming to change my db and i also want to change my bathroom lights to downlights.

Integral EvoFire Fire Rated GU10 Downlights

EvoFire downlights from Integral LED represent another leap forward in fire rated downlighting technology. The unique design of the EvoFire uses it's own steel and glass materials to create a fire barrier and doesn't require intumescent materials like other fire rated downlights on the market...

www.downlightsdirect.co.uk

these look like i can just drill a hole and put them in. i don't have to add a cover in the loft like the below as well do i?

Halolite Downlight Insulation Guard 220mm - Screwfix

Order online at Screwfix.com. Steel. Protects downlights from being covered with insulation and prevents overheating. Suitable for installation between common joist spacing. FREE next day delivery available, free collection in 1 minute.

www.screwfix.com

i'm happy for the sparky to do the lights as well if the light job is also notifiable but if the job isn't then i can do it myself.

the bathroom has a 2.45m high ceiling. i know work in a bathroom is notifiable, but i've seen people online argue that if it's outside the zones (specifically lights higher than 225) it's not notifiable. even if it's in a bathroom.

is this right? this image confuses me as it appears that above a shower for 60cm is zone 2. so that would take zone 2 to 285 meaning that if i wanted a downlight above my shower i would have to get the sparky to do it so he can notify?

would anyone be able to clear this up for me? thank you for reading

 

[Taylortwocities]

Not notifiable. Insulation can go over the light fitting. Ceiling box etc not required

 

[DefyG]

Always a debatable point.
The 2.25m is the height of zone, and anything inside that zone has to be suitable for it (ie IP44 etc). So the lights at 2.45m do not need to be IP rated, but good practice to do so if directly above a source of steam eg shower!
Work outside a zone but within a bathroom IS notifiable.
As the lighting cable is serving the location (bathroom) and the lights are accessed from the bathroom my opinion is that it IS notifiable!

 

[Taylortwocities]

@DefyG not correct. Any work inside a special location is notifiable.
but all of a bathroom is NOT a special location.
here is the exact definition- from the IET information site:


A special location means:

• A room containing a bath or shower, the space surrounding a bath tap or showerhead where the space extends vertically from the finished floor level to a height of 2.25 metres or the position of the showerhead where it is attached to a wall or ceiling at a height higher than 2.25 metres from that level or horizontally where there is a bathtub or shower tray, from the edge of the bath tub or shower tray to a distance of 0.6 metres. Or where there is no bath tub or shower tray from the centre point of the shower head where it is attached to the wall or ceiling to a distance of 1.2 metres.
• 
  so, anything above 2.25metres is not considered a “Special Location”. So not notifiable work. You have made the mistake of stopping reading at the first comma in the description. You have to read all of it!

 

[DefyG]

I haven't got the BBB at home to check but by that definition a 13A socket could be under 3m, outside a zone and not be in a special location?
I thought special location referred to a 'room' containing a bath or shower?

Apologies if I'm wrong ...... everyone has their own opinions which do not always help the OP.

 

[Taylortwocities]

The 3m socket ref states “not within 3metres from Zone 1” (the edge of a bath or shower basin.) You could have a socket on a bathroom ceiling, for instance, providing the ceiling were 5.25metres high!

 

[DefyG]

So surely the 'special location' must extend beyond the zones as I believe that regulation (about socket being within 3m) is in section 701 (Section 7 Special Locations)?

 

[telectrix]

the bathroom itself is a special location, but only works within zones 1 and 2 are notifiable. socket/s still need to be 3m from zone 1.

 

[penguinlicker]

Hi,

I’ve found this that I think says anything outside the zones isn’t a special location. Is that still the same now?

https://www.niceic.com/Niceic.com/media/Schemes/NICEIC-Part-P-Updated-Factsheet.pdf

 

[Wilko]

Hi - the govt Part P document has a pic which might clarify.

 

[stevethesparks]

Posts 2, 4, 6, & 8 are correct but I'd say leave it to the sparky.
Is the lighting circuit RCD protected?
If so does it trip within the specified times?
Do you have equipment to measure the Zs as I notice they are a class 1 fitting, does the lighting circuit even have a cpc?
Is the supplementary bonding in the bathroom up to scratch?
You will also need to complete a minor works certificate - showing readings as above.

 

[DefyG]

Thanks @Wilko, the building reg document Part P is the one that really matters and clears that up ....... you live and learn!
@penguinlicker, notification aside, post#11 highlights some other issues to consider!

 

[penguinlicker]

Thanks everyone. I have a megger tester to do zs and rcd times.

the lights aren’t rcd protected at the moment but will be after I get a registered guy to replace the dB.

so I’ll physically fit the lights now but connect them up after the chaps changed the board.

thanks again

 

[littlespark]

Thanks everyone. I have a megger tester to do zs and rcd times.

the lights aren’t rcd protected at the moment but will be after I get a registered guy to replace the dB.

so I’ll physically fit the lights now but connect them up after the chaps changed the board.

thanks again

Why wait? Connect them up if you are competent. Your electricians job is to change the board.... he’ll do some testing beforehand and afterwards.
If the downlights are IP rated, as most of them are, there shouldn’t be a problem.

 

[davesparks]

Instead of trying to wriggle out of getting the electrician to do the work by trying to find the exact extent of the rules why not just get the electrician to do the work?

Then you can be safe in the knowledge that the work has been carried out by a qualified professional and have the cerfificate to prove it.

 

[stevethesparks]

Why wait? Connect them up if you are competent. Your electricians job is to change the board.... he’ll do some testing beforehand and afterwards.
If the downlights are IP rated, as most of them are, there shouldn’t be a problem.

Then he would be connecting non RCD protected lights in the bathroom

 

[littlespark]

Then he would be connecting non RCD protected lights in the bathroom

Did I miss where it said it wasn’t already rcd protected?

he’s getting the board changed anyway, so temporaraly non rcd would soon be rectified.

 

[stevethesparks]

Did I miss where it said it wasn’t already rcd protected?

he’s getting the board changed anyway, so temporaraly non rcd would soon be rectified.

"
Thanks everyone. I have a megger tester to do zs and rcd times. the lights aren’t rcd protected at the moment but will be after I get a registered guy to replace the dB. so I’ll physically fit the lights now but connect them up after the chaps changed the board. thanks again
Source URL: bathroom down lights - notifiable? - https://www.electriciansforums.net/threads/bathroom-down-lights-notifiable.189274/#post-1649571 "

 

[Deleted member 112675]

Posts 2, 4, 6, & 8 are correct but I'd say leave it to the sparky.
Is the lighting circuit RCD protected?
If so does it trip within the specified times?
Do you have equipment to measure the Zs as I notice they are a class 1 fitting, does the lighting circuit even have a cpc?
Is the supplementary bonding in the bathroom up to scratch?
You will also need to complete a minor works certificate - showing readings as above.

You don't know if the OP has a MFT or not but your questions seem to suggest you are against DIY in general and in general I would agree with you. However, there are some people who really take the time to understand what is required and obtain the equipment necessary. It is very sad that because there are so many bodgers (not only DIYers but many of them professional tradesmen) we have a situation where people are accused of illegal activities in their own home (I'm not suggesting you are doing this).

I stopped using many trades some years ago not to save money but because many of them are bodgers. I could reel off a list longer than my arm of C2 and C3 faults I've found in my house over the years. There are some excellent tradesmen too but what does Mrs Miggins care about for example a bare connector block burried 5mm into plaster, if when she presses the button the lights come on?