immersion heater and a shower pump

[malcolmsanford]

Nice one Andy I clean forgot about that one but spot on.

 

[pushrod]

Where exactly does this information come from ?

Nice one Andy I clean forgot about that one but spot on.

I already quoted that (554.3.3) and GN1 (page 131) in post #3


Keep up at the back

 

[malcolmsanford]

I already quoted that (554.3.3) and GN1 (page 131) in post #3


Keep up at the back

Got to remember mate that age is selective, I neverl isten to a word you say push ....................

No fair do's mate you did, and I did forget about the old heaters immersed in water regs.

 

[pushrod]

Where exactly does this information come from ?

Got to remember mate that age is selective, I never listen to a word you say push ....................

No fair do's mate you did, and I did forget about the old heaters immersed in water regs.

Well that is you, the wife and quite a few others ....... LOL

 

[terminator]

I already quoted that (554.3.3) and GN1 (page 131) in post #3


Keep up at the back

Yes you did quote that and I missed that as well - well done pushrod. It was 1.00 in the morning (well that's my excuse)

 

[amychats]

Can't see how a timer is going to help you really. Even if you fit it and it comes on in line with your storage heaters, the circuit to the immersion heater is still going to be on connected to your normal tariff.


thanks for your help.isnt all my electric cheaper during e7 hours anyway?or just the storage heaters?

 

[tonys]

I already quoted that (554.3.3) and GN1 (page 131) in post #3


Keep up at the back

Under the 16th I was pulled by the NICEIC for coding a "plug top immersion domestic one" wanted to know whether it was different under the 17th so I need to look a bit closer into this one for the future.

Cheers Tony

 

[tonys]

Just looked a bit deeper into this, and domestic type immersion heaters are of an insulated type not an uninsulated type.

Therefore Regulation 554.3.3 does not apply to the type I'm referring too, the ones that are fitted into cylinders in domestic situations.

That's why the NICEIC put me in my place a about 4 years ago when I was carrying out PIR's under the 16th Edition and nothing as changed in the 17th Edition to my knowledge.

So a plug top is acceptable.

Cheers Tony

 

[Martin Bradley]

Hi im new to this site, you are correct the Imm Heater should not be on a plug top nor should it be on a 13 amp double pole fused spur, it should be on a 20 amp doulbe pole unfused spure, the reason being is that under current regs the 13 amp double pole fused spure falls below the required protection, this is due to the current regs using the voltage range of 230V and not 240V calc this and you will come up with 2990 watts, and as you have stated the IMM heater is 3KW no diversity allowed 100%, and as for the shower pump is the plug top located out side the zones, if so then this would be ok acording to current regs, under a bath with a fixed panel screwd would also meet current regs, as this is clased as having to use a tool to gain access to under the bath, but must be fused acording to raiting of pump.
If not no cert can be issued for work, pump does not require one if out side zone on plug top. but IMM heater will.

 

[Martin Bradley]

Ps as for the IMM heater being on circuit with pump, sorry but this is a ano can do, IMM heater as Markie says if over 15liter should be on dedicated circuit.
http://www.electriciansforums.net/members/markiesparkie.html

 

[tonys]

Hi im new to this site, you are correct the Imm Heater should not be on a plug top nor should it be on a 13 amp double pole fused spur, it should be on a 20 amp doulbe pole unfused spure

So should I remove the plug top from my 3kw kettle and put the kettle on a 20 amp pole switch ? OMG

 

[telectrix]

the immersion heater is wired with a plug top for a good reason. it's so he can shove the cable to the pump in with the plug pins, saves using matches.

 

[tonys]

the immersion heater is wired with a plug top for a good reason. it's so he can shove the cable to the pump in with the plug pins, saves using matches.

OMG That's a code 3 lol

 

[telectrix]

i'll raise your code 3 to a code 2

 

[tonys]

i'll raise your code 3 to a code 2

Ive watched a mate do the plug pin trick with his train-set transformer, threw him across the room, copied his old man.

 

[Martin Bradley]

So should I remove the plug top from my 3kw kettle and put the kettle on a 20 amp pole switch ? OMG

Are you sure your kettle does not say 2800 to 3000 watt, as your kettle reaches that point of say 3000 watts, for a short spell, yes it is over the raiting of the fuse, but for a short spell, also if you was to calculate the real Voltage of the supply you would find it is over the stated amount of 230 volt in the regs, you may find it at say 242 volts and yes this would lower the current that would be drawn through the fuse and thus protecting the appliance and house from fire, but as i said before if you want to comply with the regs you must apply the regs, and yes if your kettle was to be on for an Hour constant, yes i would recomend you cut the plug off. and yes i would saythat it would e a code 2. But come on we are only on this site to make things better, and Clarification, not who has the biggest Regs book.
Crazy thinking always comes clear in the end.

 

[malcolmsanford]

Are you sure your kettle does not say 2800 to 3000 watt, as your kettle reaches that point of say 3000 watts, for a short spell, yes it is over the raiting of the fuse, but for a short spell, also if you was to calculate the real Voltage of the supply you would find it is over the stated amount of 230 volt in the regs, you may find it at say 242 volts and yes this would lower the current that would be drawn through the fuse and thus protecting the appliance and house from fire, but as i said before if you want to comply with the regs you must apply the regs, and yes if your kettle was to be on for an Hour constant, yes i would recomend you cut the plug off. and yes i would saythat it would e a code 2. But come on we are only on this site to make things better, and Clarification, not who has the biggest Regs book.
Crazy thinking always comes clear in the end.

As I missed regulation 554.3.3 already, would you mind posting the reg number about the non compatibility of a 13amp FCU please

 

[tonys]

As I missed regulation 554.3.3 already, would you mind posting the reg number about the non compatibility of a 13amp FCU please

Malc

A 13amp plug top or a 13amp switched fused spur is sufficient to protect and operate the domestic type 3kw immersion heater.

Regulation 554.3 applies to uninsulated elements, not the insulated ones found in domestic type water cylinders and kettles.

People who are not sure of the Current IEE Regulations should seriously consider joining a scheme provider and use the Technical Help Phone Lines they provide.

 

[PC Electrics]

Hi im new to this site, you are correct the Imm Heater should not be on a plug top nor should it be on a 13 amp double pole fused spur, it should be on a 20 amp doulbe pole unfused spure, the reason being is that under current regs the 13 amp double pole fused spure falls below the required protection, this is due to the current regs using the voltage range of 230V and not 240V calc this and you will come up with 2990 watts, and as you have stated the IMM heater is 3KW no diversity allowed 100%, and as for the shower pump is the plug top located out side the zones, if so then this would be ok acording to current regs, under a bath with a fixed panel screwd would also meet current regs, as this is clased as having to use a tool to gain access to under the bath, but must be fused acording to raiting of pump.
If not no cert can be issued for work, pump does not require one if out side zone on plug top. but IMM heater will.

I think you are confusing your manufacturers stated ratings.
The stated rating for an immersion is usually 3kW at 240v. this gives a current of 12.5A.
The manufacturer may state an equivalent rating at 230v, which would be 2875W.
This is for the simple reason that the resistance of the element is the same no mater what voltage you apply to it (at a given working temperature and ignoring minor variances). Reduce the voltage and you reduce the power.

It's the same with showers. Manufacturers still quote the rating at 240v, because the wattage figure is higher than at 230v and so makes the shower 'look' more powerful. And in any case we pretty much still have a 240v supply anyway - the figures are something of a fudge.

What you seem to be doing is dividing the 240v rating by 230v, which is not correct.

 

[pushrod]

As I missed regulation 554.3.3 already, would you mind posting the reg number about the non compatibility of a 13amp FCU please

Guidance note 1, page 131, says "Immersion heaters should not be connected by a plug and socket-outlet, but by a switched connection unit complying with BS 1364-4." and i am sure you know already BS 1363-4 is the specification for 13A fused connection units, switched and unswitched.