Not dead! What wire to use when spurring a circuit onto additional sockets?

[liamj2003]

What wire to use when spurring a circuit onto additional sockets?


I dont want to reopen this thread for discussions on ego sharing... but to let you know

1. I'm not dead or flame bait!
2. Wasn't aware until just today of the discussions that followed the orginal thread.
3. I purchased 2.5 t+e as first recommended from B&Q and was recommended it by the electrical guy there when I asked what to use.
4. I started backwards to the live spurring socket but havent actually even touched it, just threaded wire through walls, bolstered out for the back boxes and connected dead sockets, then called my electrician to come to check, he then rightly informed me (on phone) that it could be a radial circuit and different wire might want to be used.(5mm??)
5. Thank you to most of you for some of your comments....... There actually is some old bell wire in my shed, let me know if you want it and Ill stick it up on ebay!!!

So waiting for electrician to visit on the off chance he gets (recently retired electrician, pre heart op)

What advice can you give in the meantime......... Im aware the first maybe to contact a qualified registered engineer in my area thats not about to keel over on the job, maybe you can help me out if your one.... Hastings, UK

Cheers

Liam

 

[rmc86uk]

There's no such thing as 5mm cable!

Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk

 

[liamj2003]

I obviously misheard him or he's losing it already.....ekk! lol

 

[Penance]

I suspect he meant 4mm cable.
I wouldn't trust anything that the b&q assistant says.
That aside, you're doing ok by getting a competent spark in to check your work before it is connected, by the spark I assume?
Sounds like you've done the graft and getting the spark to test it and connect if it's ok.
If you used the wrong CSA cable I guess you'll kick yourself But at least you've not just Bodged it in.

 

[IQ Electrical]

What wire to use when spurring a circuit onto additional sockets?


I dont want to reopen this thread for discussions on ego sharing... but to let you know

1. I'm not dead or flame bait!
2. Wasn't aware until just today of the discussions that followed the orginal thread.
3. I purchased 2.5 t+e as first recommended from B&Q and was recommended it by the electrical guy there when I asked what to use.
4. I started backwards to the live spurring socket but havent actually even touched it, just threaded wire through walls, bolstered out for the back boxes and connected dead sockets, then called my electrician to come to check, he then rightly informed me (on phone) that it could be a radial circuit and different wire might want to be used.(5mm??)
5. Thank you to most of you for some of your comments....... There actually is some old bell wire in my shed, let me know if you want it and Ill stick it up on ebay!!!

So waiting for electrician to visit on the off chance he gets (recently retired electrician, pre heart op)

What advice can you give in the meantime......... Im aware the first maybe to contact a qualified registered engineer in my area thats not about to keel over on the job, maybe you can help me out if your one.... Hastings, UK

Cheers

Liam

Liam, my first advice IS to find a competent electrician, I know everyone likes to save a few pounds here and there but by the terminology used in your post, you haven't got the knowledge to do this work safely and that's before we even look at testing and certification etc.

Use the B&Q 'experts' for advice on barbecues and decking, I have in the past interrupted conversations there between 'expert' and potential customer on overhearing some of the poor quality suggestions on design and selection.

 

[liamj2003]

I suspect he meant 4mm cable.
I wouldn't trust anything that the b&q assistant says.
That aside, you're doing ok by getting a competent spark in to check your work before it is connected, by the spark I assume?
Sounds like you've done the graft and getting the spark to test it and connect if it's ok.
If you used the wrong CSA cable I guess you'll kick yourself But at least you've not just Bodged it in.

Exactly!!! Thanks for your input.

 

[liamj2003]

Liam, my first advice IS to find a competent electrician, I know everyone likes to save a few pounds here and there but by the terminology used in your post, you haven't got the knowledge to do this work safely and that's before we even look at testing and certification etc.

Use the B&Q 'experts' for advice on barbecues and decking, I have in the past interrupted conversations there between 'expert' and potential customer on overhearing some of the poor quality suggestions on design and selection.

That was my original plan, to get a competent electrician in to check my work and connect it, and Ill watch what B&Q say re: specific fields, already cheesed of at them for recently changing there varnish ranges as I went back as needed more to finsh the job.

 

[IQ Electrical]

That was my original plan, to get a competent electrician in to check my work and connect it, and Ill watch what B&Q say re: specific fields, already chesed of at them for recently changing there varnish ranges as I went back as needed more to finsh the job.

I can't really comment on the varnish issue

 

[telectrix]

liam, i'm trying to visualise what you have got there. it looks as if you have run sockets in a spur off a ring. how manynew sockets?

if you are coming off a ring, fitting a Fused Connection Unit at the point where you connect into the ring will solve the issue. if the existing circuit is a radial, then you,ve no problems.

suggest you post your location, and see if a forum member is close to you .

 

[liamj2003]

liam, i'm trying to visualise what you have got there. it looks as if you have run sockets in a spur off a ring. how manynew sockets?

if you are coming off a ring, fitting a Fused Connection Unit at the point where you connect into the ring will solve the issue. if the existing circuit is a radial, then you,ve no problems.

suggest you post your location, and see if a forum member is close to you .

I posted my local (hastings) Have done two extensions,(still not connected) one in my lounge coming from an original single socket, with one set of wires going into it (in the single socket coming from the back already there), spurring onto 1 double socket below TV and then going up to a single socket directly behind TV on wall and the other in my bedroom again onto a single socket but with two double sockets off it. Both extentions where made with a 10m reel of 2.5mm t+e so roughly about 5 metres each
Hope that makes sense, I can make a drawing if it helps, although it wont be a technical schematic, unsure of the lingo.

Many thanks

 

[telectrix]

a pic. would be helpful. try and make it large enough for my tired eyes.

 

[WayneL]

I posted my local (hastings) Have done two extensions,(still not connected) one in my lounge coming from an original single socket, with one set of wires going into it (in the single socket coming from the back already there), spurring onto 1 double socket below TV and then going up to a single socket directly behind TV on wall and the other in my bedroom again onto a single socket but with two double sockets off it. Both extentions where made with a 10m reel of 2.5mm t+e so roughly about 5 metres each
Hope that makes sense, I can make a drawing if it helps, although it wont be a technical schematic, unsure of the lingo.

Many thanks

Hi,

The problem you have, Liam, is that, if the two single sockets that you are spurring(extending) from are already 'spurs' off a 'ring final', then you can't run your 'extensions' off them.(unless they are fused spurs)
If they are radials - then fine - but I assume you have no way of confirming this.

 

[liamj2003]

a pic. would be helpful. try and make it large enough for my tired eyes.

I have included a drawing, Its worth mentioning that the lounge only has two live sockets currently and this is how its always been, 1 single on one side of the room and 1 double on the other, The bedroom is exactly the same 1 single socket and double, and as the single socket was the closest to the point i wanted to install extra sockets it made sense to try and spur off those.

BEDROOM


LOUNGE


The other existing double sockets is on the wall behind perspective drawing, both doubles as mentioned.

Many thanks for your input

 

[malcolmsanford]

Even if the existing socket was not a spur, but part of a ring, as per the regs you can not add 2 double sockets spurred direct of the ring.

Again if you have radial circuits, unless by some stroke of luck the sockets are the end of 2 individual circuits, you can not add 2 double sockets spurred direct off the circuit.

There are other factors as well the work you do will have to conform to the current regulations. I didn't see your other thread, but in this you don't mention RCD protection for your existing sockets, your new sockets will have to have that as they will be classed as sockets used by ordinary persons.

If you bury the cable then unless you bury it deeper than 50mm or have earth/steel protection on the cable that also needs RCD protection.

A way of doing this is connect new sockets via a RCD protected FCU. But before all this can be done you will need to see how those existing sockets are wired.

 

[p11jor]

Extension lead........your spark may have trouble on his ring final cony test

 

[Adam W]

I don't know if it's just the sketchy diagram but those cable routes look somewhat 'all over the shop' unless of course that's not what you wanted to hear in which case they're fine.

 

[liamj2003]

I don't know if it's just the sketchy diagram but those cable routes look somewhat 'all over the shop' unless of course that's not what you wanted to hear in which case they're fine.

Sorry, I dont know what you mean "all over the shop" I thought they were quite neat, in straight lines 5" above the floor.

 

[Adam W]

Not in the picture they're not - most go horizontal, one goes vertical, couple of right angles and they appear to go around the corner of the room.

 

[liamj2003]

Not in the picture they're not - most go horizontal, one goes vertical, couple of right angles and they appear to go around the corner of the room.

So how else would i run the cable???? I dont get it?

 

[Deleted member 9648]

An unfused spur from a ring must serve no more than ONE twin socket.
A fused spur from a ring (max 13a) may serve an unlimited number of sockets.
Buried cable must be in a safe zone...that is in line vertically or horizontally with an electrical accessory,or within 150mm of the ceiling, or within 150mm of the angle formed by two walls.

 

[p11jor]

Liam I suggest you buy a copy of bs7671 before doing this, or the onsite guide, think about it.....how would a joiner know were to hang his shelves around diagonal cables?

 

[liamj2003]

Liam I suggest you buy a copy of bs7671 before doing this, or the onsite guide, think about it.....how would a joiner know were to hang his shelves around diagonal cables?

There are no diagonal cables, maybe its just my crappy perspective drawing that makes it look like there is, only horizontal and vertical cables, (and I used a level!)

Well maybe ill turn the single socket Im coming off into a 13amp fused spur, its hidden behind a bookcase and wardrobe anyway. Lets see what an electrician says first.

Thanks

 

[Wiredspark]

Lets see what an electrician says first.

Thanks

You've just solved all your problems there mate, best advice you could give yourself.

 

[p11jor]

Couple of spurs (if possible) to run the cable and wire it up, aslong as you do the donkey work, I.e chase out for him, and patch back up, I wouldn't be charging more than £100, especially if it's a case of a unotifiable job.

If you wire it, and the kids get a belt, without at minium of 17th edition no judge in the land would deem you competent or even made the effort to become competent.......with no spark there whilst you run these cables you wouldn't be a "instructed person" you would be ruled as bs7671 states in the definition section a "ordinary person"

 

[SirKit Breaker]

I once asked the B&Q garden expert if i could have a diesel lawnmower. After about half an hour he said yes, we will call you when we get one in. That was about 5 years ago, and he still hasn't rung.

Cheers............Howard

 

[IQ Electrical]

I once asked the B&Q garden expert if i could have a diesel lawnmower. After about half an hour he said yes, we will call you when we get one in. That was about 5 years ago, and he still hasn't rung.

Cheers............Howard

You'll need to borrow my strimmer then, let some light in!

 

[telectrix]

I once asked the B&Q garden expert if i could have a diesel lawnmower. After about half an hour he said yes, we will call you when we get one in. That was about 5 years ago, and he still hasn't rung.

Cheers............Howard

meanwhile you've got a hairstyle like Mohammed.

 

[telectrix]

I once asked the B&Q garden expert if i could have a diesel lawnmower. After about half an hour he said yes, we will call you when we get one in. That was about 5 years ago, and he still hasn't rung.

Cheers............Howard

perhaps his day job is with the DNO