Over Voltage and Voltage Regulators

[Cbigfoot]

I have a customer who is in a new build luxury house which had a new main installed into.

He has a Wolf oven which has gone wrong twice and they are blaming the electrical supply as it is at 250Volts. They are saying they will charge him £200 an hour for further repairs.

Now apart from the fact that we are allowed 230 +10% 253V and that i cannot control the voltage i have two questions.

Anyone got real world experience of this and did the DNO do anything about it from monitoring to solution?

Has anyone got any real world experience of the voltage regulators that claim to reduce the voltage and make the stuff "work better"
Do they actually work? and would they be suitable in this instance?


Cheers

 

[Marvo]

What specifically were the failures with the oven.

Is the oven 3-phase with neutral or single phase supply?

 

[Darkwood]

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...al-supply-tolerances-and-appliance-safety.pdf

The last sentence of this link is where you sit and looks like they should also be ensuring operation and durability of components should satisfy to the same level as the safety standards.

Have a read - dig deeper and build a case to discuss with the company, if their products are failing within the UK tolerances then I'm no laywer but reading the link its seems to suggest that appliances sold onto the UK market should be tolerant to the permitted voltage ranges found, if it is failing or becomes unsafe then its not meeting requirements and I would stipulate in your wording that you will be reporting your case to the appropriate governing body.

Im no lawyer so you need to do your own research here but dropping the right wording and using the right regulations can turn things around sharply I have found, you have probably got an oven designed for the differing Europe tolerances and not taking into account the UK... this is not your fault so you should really demand a compliant replacement rather than a repair like for like.

Do you correspondance by Email and any phone conversations need recording and let them know that at the beginning, if you cannot record your phone call still tell them this and ask for management level discussions and not the sales rep'.

I have overturned and proven market incompatability over the yrs on several products and in every case I have settled to my advantage on trust I take the matter no further, if evidence mounts that a company is in breach of regulation then they will move mountains to stop you refering them to tradng standards and satisfying compromises can be done.

I saved one company over 2.5k recently for knowing my crap.

 

[shanky887614]

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...al-supply-tolerances-and-appliance-safety.pdf

The last sentence of this link is where you sit and looks like they should also be ensuring operation and durability of components should satisfy to the same level as the safety standards.

Have a read - dig deeper and build a case to discuss with the company, if their products are failing within the UK tolerances then I'm no laywer but reading the link its seems to suggest that appliances sold onto the UK market should be tolerant to the permitted voltage ranges found, if it is failing or becomes unsafe then its not meeting requirements and I would stipulate in your wording that you will be reporting your case to the appropriate governing body.

Im no lawyer so you need to do your own research here but dropping the right wording and using the right regulations can turn things around sharply I have found, you have probably got an oven designed for the differing Europe tolerances and not taking into account the UK... this is not your fault so you should really demand a compliant replacement rather than a repair like for like.

Do you correspondance by Email and any phone conversations need recording and let them know that at the beginning, if you cannot record your phone call still tell them this and ask for management level discussions and not the sales rep'.

I have overturned and proven market incompatability over the yrs on several products and in every case I have settled to my advantage on trust I take the matter no further, if evidence mounts that a company is in breach of regulation then they will move mountains to stop you refering them to tradng standards and satisfying compromises can be done.

I saved one company over 2.5k recently for knowing my crap.

there are mobile apps that will record the conversation, just makesure to tell them in your own words.

i will be recording this call for my own records, are you happy to continue.


they have two choices in my opinion;

1.
replace with unit that can take the V range in the uk.

2.
fix it free of charge and modify it to bring it upto current regulations in the UK.

if it doesnt work on the main voltage taking into account the range +/-10% then it is not fit for purpose in the uk and im suprised it is for sale

 

[Cbigfoot]

They not specify the nature of the fault but i believe it is a PCB issue.

It is a single phase unit, and Wolf is a US based company so it is likely converted for use, but for the mass european market, and not specifically.

Darkwood,
I found that document wish a simple search online about an hour before I posted this and have sent it to them with wording remarkably like yours!

I have also played this game before, but not where the oven manufacturer is trying to blame the electrical contractor for the voltage!

I am not sure that the client is trying to come after me but i have always kept records of this type of thing, you just never know.

However i wondered if anyone had a solution that could be implemented if the DNO does not offer anything. While i am not over worried, the builder does a lot of work with me and I need to try and assist in a solution rather than walk away.
Customer relations and all that!

 

[Darkwood]

My solution would be prove your case and ask for an oven suitable for the UK tolerances and don't look for costly solutions for an appliance that does not seem to be fit for purpose.

You seem clued up enough anyway and thats the route I would go, explain if the oven fails again you will be getting an independent technical report into the failure and its likely causes to build a case, this you must do as you need independent evidence or they will bury there own failures in denial. Once they realise you are clued up then I can see a solution been agreed by all parties.

A call to the DNO or the power provider can sometimes help as they may reduce it slightly but by the sound of it you are sat on the sub-station there... tell them you messured and logged 255v on a few occasions or don't expect too much response.

 

[tazz]

Any modern electrical appliance, is capable of handling excess voltage due to the internal voltage regulators. As microprocessors control most of our gadgets these days, the voltage is split between 5v for micro, 12/24 for possible control and 230v for final elements. And modern switch mode supplies have dealt with our tv, computers and microwaves for the last 10 years.
The idea of excess voltage damaging a cooker control pcb, shows this manufacture has problem, and knows about it.....

 

[shanky887614]

Any modern electrical appliance, is capable of handling excess voltage due to the internal voltage regulators. As microprocessors control most of our gadgets these days, the voltage is split between 5v for micro, 12/24 for possible control and 230v for final elements. And modern switch mode supplies have dealt with our tv, computers and microwaves for the last 10 years.
The idea of excess voltage damaging a cooker control pcb, shows this manufacture has problem, and knows about it.....

your right taz, any designer worth his salt would put some kind of fuse either resetable or otherwise to protect the pcb