POLL - Neutrals at switches

[RWJ]

As the title suggests

In respect to the debate in this thread http://www.electriciansforums.net/e...electrical-forum/33420-neutrals-switches.html


I've decided to launch a poll to gage response from the forum.

3 Answers
GOOD / ACCEPTABLE - If you think Neutrals at switches is OK
BAD / UNACCEPTABLE- If you think Neutrals at switches is NOT OK / WRONG
UNDECIDED - If you have no preference or are fence sitting (like me)

The poll is timed for 7 days...... So get polling

 

[IQ Electrical]

As the title suggests

In respect to the debate in this thread http://www.electriciansforums.net/e...electrical-forum/33420-neutrals-switches.html


I've decided to launch a poll to gage response from the forum.

3 Answers
GOOD - If you think Neutrals at switches is OK
BAD - If you think Neutrals at switches is NOT OK / WRONG
UNDECIDED - If you have no preference or are fence sitting (like me)

The poll is timed for 7 days...... So get polling

Can you not use the word 'acceptable' rather than good?
I think it's acceptable but I wouldn't describe it as being 'good'

 

[RWJ]

Can you not use the word 'acceptable' rather than good?
I think it's acceptable but I wouldn't describe it as being 'good'

Good point IQ...

You can't change the poll once it's posted..... Apparently

I did toy with various levels of acceptability but opted for the straight Yes / No as it was becoming complicated.

 

[IQ Electrical]

Forget that, I see you've gone for good/ok, I can live with that

 

[Paul.M]

Acceptable would be better. Anyway I've voted, it will be interesting to see the outcome.

 

[malcolmsanford]

Well I'm definately bad .........but there again ...........no definately bad ................but on the other hand it could .................NO I'm decided it's definately .....................yes I see your point

Oh drat I must be a fence sitter

 

[High Tower]

Malc, and RWJ ur arses must be sore with all that fence sitting lol

same for me, perfectly acceptable if required although i wouldn't necessarily go out of my way to do it like that

 

[RWJ]

Malc, and RWJ ur arses must be sore with all that fence sitting lol

same for me, perfectly acceptable if required although i wouldn't necessarily go out of my way to do it like that

Exactly... I think it's acceptable.. but is it good practise????? (RWJ's still fence sitting)

 

[Adam W]

I think it should have been more a case of "where do you loop to - rose, switch or either?"
I do whatever depending on the circumstances - I wouldn't go out of my way to do either.

So on that basis my first vote is 'undecided', second vote 'OK', third vote 'not OK'.

 

[RWJ]

I think it should have been more a case of "where do you loop to - rose, switch or either?"
I do whatever depending on the circumstances - I wouldn't go out of my way to do either.

So on that basis my first vote is 'undecided', second vote 'OK', third vote 'not OK'.

Oh an AV man lololololololo

You also forgot the singles method! - Not meaning to open up any more worms!

 

[Electricalserv]

You only have to look at some of the pictures provided in the other thread to see that its bad practise putting so many cables into such a small backbox. Using a switch as a junction box is terrible. The only people to have a switch that encorporates this is hager (as far as I know), so it can't be that common otherwise all the manufacturers would have this encorporated.

 

[Adam W]

Oh yes, the singles method! If I was wiring using singles I would use the singles method. So neither.

 

[Adam W]

So what are peoples' views on looping the cpc behind the switch?

 

[roukel01]

You only have to look at some of the pictures provided in the other thread to see that its bad practise putting so many cables into such a small backbox. Using a switch as a junction box is terrible. The only people to have a switch that encorporates this is hager (as far as I know), so it can't be that common otherwise all the manufacturers would have this encorporated.

Put a deep enough box in and I can see nothing wrong with it.

However, if all you are doing is wiring pendants, then I can't really see the point in wiring to the switch first, however, if you want to keep the number of cables down at the light position (say for a fancy light) then its a good way to wire it.

Pros and Cons to both wiring method's, which is why an experienced sparky can decide which method is best before undertaking the wiring!

Just to throw a spanner in the works, who still wires a feed to a joint box in the roof space and wires all switches/lights from that???

 

[topquark]

There is nothing wrong with it ... where it's appropriate. It's like most things you would do it where warranted. For wall lights, I wouldn't hesitate.

 

[malcolmsanford]

Put a deep enough box in and I can see nothing wrong with it.

However, if all you are doing is wiring pendants, then I can't really see the point in wiring to the switch first, however, if you want to keep the number of cables down at the light position (say for a fancy light) then its a good way to wire it.

Pros and Cons to both wiring method's, which is why an experienced sparky can decide which method is best before undertaking the wiring!

Just to throw a spanner in the works, who still wires a feed to a joint box in the roof space and wires all switches/lights from that???[/QUOTE]

That was the way I was taught the old Octopus/spider method, and we had to fit the box with din rails, klippons and label each circuit

 

[Gravid]

Yeah did the old spider method the other day on a rewire, I like to mix it up a bit, and that was the most appropriate method.

 

[davelerave]

the spider and the loop-in to lights are handy for rewire's anyhow

but imo-it should be one 'method' throughout installation

they shouldn't be mixed

 

[aptsys]

Wall lights or downlights would always loop in at the switch for me, pendants at the rose, bathrooms with timed fans etc at the isolator. Saying they shouldn't be mixed is potentially setting yourself up for more grief than you need in my opinion.

 

[davelerave]

i would decide at start on one method


whichever-singles,loop to lites or switches ,spider

but imo 'best practice' is one method throughout

as much as possible anyway-there might be a few lights+switches done different where needed

 

[Spudnik]

Options edited.

 

[RWJ]

Options edited.

Thank you Jason

 

[VoltzElectrical]

You only have to look at some of the pictures provided in the other thread to see that its bad practise putting so many cables into such a small backbox. Using a switch as a junction box is terrible. The only people to have a switch that encorporates this is hager (as far as I know), so it can't be that common otherwise all the manufacturers would have this encorporated.

DoBBY. Welcome back.

 

[lewlec]

9 times out of 10 its loop in at the switch for me, much less hassle when doing fancy light fittings... and as already mentioned if many cables put a deeper box in... but thats just me!

 

[davelerave]

looks like a labour landslide wah

 

[SMB]

Why would anyone 3 plate a down light?

The mind boggles.

Take the mains to the switch.

 

[timo]

Loop to switch cos putting those small light fittings up with 9+ wires in can be a right pain. pluse must better when doing down lights no messy box in voids

 

[mike2790]

p+n loop to the switch all day long, why make things hard for yourself. any faults when you test through, theres no need to "get the steps out the van" as its all there in front of you at the switch. the only reason you wouldnt be able to fit a few extra cables into a backbox is if your using 16mm boxes, which i never use anyway so no problems.

anybody use 10 way lighting boxes on rewires and lighting alterations etc?

 

[Voltimax]

What exactly is the point of this thread?

 

[telectrix]

What exactly is the point of this thread?

dunno, mate. i'm staying neutral.

 

[aptsys]

What exactly is the point of this thread?

Did you miss the other thread??

 

[telectrix]

think the thread missed the eye of his needle. now that's got a point!

 

[Hawk81]

Over 80 votes and only 6 say its unacceptable and 71 say it is. That says a lot.

 

[Mark_Burgess]

I dont mind a neutral at the switch, especially as the diyers get really confused.

 

[Voltimax]

My point is that it's a pointless discussion.
There is nothing wrong with the practice of having neutrals at switches. Even the NICEIC endorse it. The mind boggles sometimes.

 

[PC Electrics]

My point is that it's a pointless discussion.
There is nothing wrong with the practice of having neutrals at switches. Even the NICEIC endorse it. The mind boggles sometimes.

I agree Volti. It's why I haven't wasted my time contributing (except to 'like' a few posts).

 

[RWJ]

I should have put a forth option when I started the Poll.

1.Acceptable
2.Unacceptable
3.Undecided
4.Don't really care... and now bored with the whole thing

 

[IQ Electrical]

I should have put a forth option when I started the Poll.

1.Acceptable
2.Unacceptable
3.Undecided
4.Don't really care... and now bored with the whole thing

89 votes so far, that shows we did care, your poll idea was great!

 

[Deleted member 9648]

My point is that it's a pointless discussion.
There is nothing wrong with the practice of having neutrals at switches. Even the NICEIC endorse it. The mind boggles sometimes.

It would be pointless if there was only one point of view......as there are two points of view I dont see how it can be a pointless discussion.

 

[Voltimax]

Two points of view?
How the hell can there even be two points of view?
There is nothing wrong with neutrals at switches and that should be the end of it. There shouldn't be a second opinion to this amongst individuals that should know what they are doing.
Why would neutrals at a switch be any different to neutrals at a light or even a junction box? Hell maybe we shouldn't even be joining neutrals at consumer units eh?
The six that voted no, need to retrain or enter another profession.

 

[IQ Electrical]

At least 4 of the 'unacceptable' votes came from members with posts on this thread saying that they would take a neutral to the switch in some circumstances so the vote is not even as close as it seems lol!

 

[Engineer54]

The six that voted no, need to retrain or enter another profession.

Yep, ...Your right there, we would certainly need to retarain, ....As bodger jobbers!!!

 

[sparks1234]

Yep, ...Your right there, we would certainly need to retarain, ....As bodger jobbers!!!

Thought, by the look of the vote, and the fact nobody has come up with any regulation proving it wrong, that it does seem OK.

 

[Engineer54]

With nearly a 1000 views on this thread alone and god knows how many views on the closed thread, and less than 100 that bothered to vote, i suggest you couldn't come to any such meaningful conclusion....

In fact most of the posters on both treads have been by the same people that just can't seem to get past it!! Does that mean that there really looking for reassurance, of there views?? Maybe that niggling doubt at the back of there mind forces them to come back time and time again just to make sure ...lol!!! Your all free to do whatever you want to do ....As it's been stated many many times now, that there is nothing in your BRB bible against the practice, ....so carry on in your own sweet way!!!

 

[sparks1234]

With nearly a 1000 views on this thread alone and god knows how many views on the closed thread, and less than 100 that bothered to vote, i suggest you couldn't come to any such meaningful conclusion....

In fact most of the posters on both treads have been by the same people that just can't seem to get past it!! Does that mean that there really looking for reassurance, of there views?? Maybe that niggling doubt at the back of there mind forces them to come back time and time again just to make sure ...lol!!! Your all free to do whatever you want to do ....As it's been stated many many times now, that there is nothing in your BRB bible against the practice, ....so carry on in your own sweet way!!!

I'm sure yours is the only relevent view E54.

 

[IQ Electrical]

I'm sure yours is the only relevent view E54.

No, he's quite right, the poll is way too close to call!

The forum's just full of 'bodger jobbers' and my beloved Arsenal will win the league...

 

[Engineer54]

To ME, yes!! ...but i'm not you or any of the others here. I know what is and what isn't acceptable to myself!! You and the others have to decide for yourselves....

 

[sparks1234]

To ME, yes!! ...but i'm not you or any of the others here. I know what is and what isn't acceptable to myself!! You and the others have to decide for yourselves....

Absolutely,, see we agree

 

[Engineer54]

The forum's just full of 'bodger jobbers' and my beloved Arsenal will win the league...

Maybe not this year, but according to my 2 brothers and sister, and virtually the whole of one side of my family, next year for definite!!!
They have been Arsenal fans/supporters since they were out of nappies. ...Maybe even before!! lol!!!

As for the wanna be sarcasm, ....irrelevance rules!!!

 

[Engineer54]

Absolutely,, see we agree

We do Indeed!!!