Tiler for £12 an hour??

[paulthe spark]

Whats everyones views on other trades rate? Must say it annoys me a little the fact we seem to be on the same par as plasterers, painters and tilers now. No disrespect but these trades are not as technically skilled as electricians so why is this not reflected in the rate? We have to pay and study for courses and liable if someones house burns down but other trades not subjected to this are paid the same or not more? Ive heard electricians were always the best paid years ago so whats changed? I cant see the justification, sorry rant over but would welcome peoples views

 

[SafetyFirst]

I know an industrial painter who gets more than me!

 

[paulthe spark]

It seems everyday i hear other trades making more than me incuding painters and decorators. Someone told me a tale of bricklayers not getting out of bed for less than a grand a week ( this was when times were good) which totally shocked me. Im gonna take up grasscutting i hear it pays well ha

 

[colin500]

Tiler for 12 quid an hour .... have to get his number, round Edinburgh way its £22/25 an hour + materials !!

 

[paulthe spark]

unbelievable

 

[Spudnik]

Unusual for them to have an hourly rate as they normally charge by the m2.

 

[Adam W]

They'll be the next ones to go then - "Earn 50k+ being your own boss painting/tiling/plastering after a 7 day distance learning course which I can sell you for 10k".
The best thing we can do is promote the fact that this is all lies.

 

[R.Sparky]

come on guys cut them some slack all we do is put wires in things... LOL

We need more pay!

 

[GStueyXR]

I think to be fair, everyones time is equally irretrievable..... Lying on her deathbed the average toilet cleaning lady will wonder why she sold 33% of her life so cheaply.

 

[Des 56]

I have no grout with tilers

 

[colin500]

Maybe the problem is in customers percieved value for money, when they walk into a room thats been freshly
plastered/painted or tiled the usual reaction is wow (if its done right).
when they walk in and you`ve put in 2 extra sockets and swapped the lightswitch faceplate its more like
great, you want HOW MUCH !
Jason .S your right it is normally by area however I noticed on a couple of invoices its sq/yards

 

[paulthe spark]

Don't get me wrong I have no grout with any these trades either. I was only using tilers as an example. the point I was making was we should be paid more due to the responsiblity and the qualifications we have to put ourselves through to keep us up to date when this doesn't apply in most trades. But that's only my opinion each to there own i say

 

[paulthe spark]

Electrics hasn't really got that wow factor has it ? Ha

 

[ezzzekiel]

other trades tend to be the finished article, poor tiling looks rubbish whereas electrics mainly hidden and mrs smith only cares about what she can see.

but all tradesman have a valuable skill, wether one is better than the other is dependant on the trade you do, although it was always considered that sparks are top of the tree

 

[pennywise]

It's because all the other trades have a go at electric's badly, kitchen fitters, builders, chippys etc they devalue our trade by undercutting us, as you say it's not a finish based trade you see a socket or a light switch thats it, no one would be any the wiser as to how well it's been put in,only when it goes wrong and the customer gets a shock when the qualified guy tells them it been done incorrectly and the previous person should be shot

 

[SEC-Tom]

I'm in the wrong trade.

 

[Dave]

All trades are worthy of a good pay packet..

Electrics has it's speciality area's that not all sparks do, same with plumbers, not all can do gas etc..

I am a Tiler by Trade and i specialise in Natural stone work, tiling is a lot more specialised than it was say 20 yrs back.

Every trade has it's average Joe's and they will just want to earn a wage and then go home,, nothing more..

You charge what you think you are worth.. and i know some sparks that are on very good money... so don't undercut your selves charge proper rates.

 

[joethepudding]

I believe that to justify wages you need to look how long it takes to become proficient at a trade.
If you look at the average 3rd year electrical apprentice he could probably rewire a house with his eyes closed.
But on the other hand plastering can take 6 years to become proficient at.

So if you put them together the plasterer should be getting more.

This may upset a few people because sparks are renowned for thinking we at the top of the tree because we can do a few calculations and can read.

But do a full day laying brick or skimming ceilings and you would be wanting the same if not more than the electrician sat wiring a cu.

 

[rocker]

Good point, but then on the other hand you're less likely to be killed skimming a ceiling. Swings and roundabouts is the term, but I do feel that sparks tend to be taken the mic out of on site, just seems like we have to work around everyone else, and I think an equal pay amount would be fine, but we are definitely being undervalued.

 

[DiscoDave]

The working around other trades debate is a whole new kettle of fish! I've lost count of the arguments i've had with site managers because they would rather have the floor laid, than have the lights on or the central heating commissioned!

 

[jammysparks]

I believe that to justify wages you need to look how long it takes to become proficient at a trade.
If you look at the average 3rd year electrical apprentice he could probably rewire a house with his eyes closed.
But on the other hand plastering can take 6 years to become proficient at.

So if you put them together the plasterer should be getting more.

This may upset a few people because sparks are renowned for thinking we at the top of the tree because we can do a few calculations and can read.

But do a full day laying brick or skimming ceilings and you would be wanting the same if not more than the electrician sat wiring a cu.

If it takes someone six years to learn plastering then they must have an arm missing.

I started my electrical career when i was 17 in 1993, ive been employed for my apprentership and some 6 years after by a large company where i done a lot of everything, industrial/commercial as well as a little domestic, run sites with 10+ sparks under me, bank refurbs,office blocks bowlplexs etc etc...im ranting here.
Ive earnt some damn good money before the recession hit and probably averaged 800 take home pay a week employed but ive had to do average 80 hours a week for that and a lot of nights.
It got to the point where id had enough of the cutbacks to my pay which resulted in me doing same hours for half the pay nowadays so i left in august last year and have gone self employed, im now niceic domestic registered and things are slow, but luckily due to my wife going back full time after our daughter we manage just about.

Im ranting but ill get there, bare with me

The point is because work is not as frequent as id like ive gone on the tools with a plasterer as a m8 and been taught, now im not as quick as a guy who does just plastering day in day out but my finish is as gd as most and i regularly get paid more to do this than spark, i went with the guy for 2 weeks ffs and can pass off as a plasterer amongst the fulltimers.

My brother is a floorlayer and in between electrical jobs and plastering jobs to make ends meet i do some labouring for him and his crew in airports on big contracts and get paid £180 oer day.

The whole thing is mucked up and trades such as plasterers and floorlayers walk on a site and the area is mostly cleared for them "so they can get on" whilst we get pushed to a side and have to work around everyone.

Theres no respect for sparkys, loads of people have a go themselves. Doesnt help that anyone can buy electrical materials/accesories without having to show some kind of competence or qualification.

 

[paulthe spark]

Have to agree with jammysparks there I've losses count number times walked into a house to 1st fix and have to clear partitions, insulation, crap etc out of the way also bending under scaffoldings to get into the house only for the scaffolding to be cleared at the door as soon as joiner comes in with his sheets frustrating

 

[martysparky]

True enough any body can buy plaster from B and Q cheaper than the builders merchants and have a go like I did recently.

I plastered a ceiling and a few walls ( first time after reading a thread on here ) ok not 100% on the finish but ok and a lot cheaper buying a few bags of plaster than plaster plus the plasterers fee. No risk of death!!!

say, this was electrics and someone done a 90% good job... that 10% could very well be fatal

Ok we could do one of those in a week courses

Plastering
Tiling
basic plumbing
Electrics
Blah blah

Yes you could do a course and meet the grade etc but you could not do electrics even if just domestic and meet that grade unless you had studied for a few months before hand unlike the others.

So, although all trades have value and deserve to be paid well I think it is clear that electrics is more technical and dangerous.

Having said that i have worked in many areas in my time including: Glass, Carpentry, Tiles, Engineering,
I suppose it comes down to the level of craftsmanship / degree of skill / expertise etc.

If your a carpenter is your capability making and fitting a window or making and fitting a bespoke kitchen.

tiler, installing a simple splash back or complex Victorian designs

When the demand is there you can charge as much as you can get.

I think though at the mo with so many ppl out of work the public knows they can get some unemployed person to do work cheap. And what unemployed skilled person would refuse cash for there skills.

From what I see the public will either want to pay peanuts for the world or pay an arm and a leg for nothing. I.e. either have a really cheap job done or pay a huge amount of money playing safe with a big company.

the smaller companies seem to be between a rock and a hard place although will probably do a better job than both above.

So, the way I see it is you'll alway get someone saying how much money they earned.

The prob with sparking is as long as the customer gets that cert they think they are safe and that cert is also a means of bargaining for the customer as said earlier wires aint a visible or cosmetic attraction etc.

a cert means safe and thus bargain hard for lower prices.

Why oh why Part Public is not Public aware or is there a ploy in place creating a demand for the cert.

When the public are demanding the cert and made aware as with Gas safe surely the value of the spark will return.

god what a ramble

 

[stretchyboy]

If it takes someone six years to learn plastering then they must have an arm missing.

I'll be laughing about that on and off for the rest of the day

 

[joethepudding]

Guys I am afraid we live in an aesthetic world. If you are a finishing trade you wll be more valued by the customer.

I priced some work for a women last month, she was very happy to pay £1,500 for the fitted wardrobes. But she didn’t want a lintel over her new French doors because of the cost!!

She didn’t care that half her house could come down as long as her bedroom looked good.

That’s why I love lighting design as it gives us a chance to get in on the finishing touches.

 

[stretchyboy]

This is so true, we have an intruder alarm side of the business and i recently went to a guy in Barking who is a friend and he had just had his window double glazed in a lovely wood effect, been broken into for the second time in two years yet wouldn't part with 400 quid (which was parts only!!!) for a wirefree system with six sensors, three door contacts, gsm dialler(no phone line in house) to protect it all ................ I think we are all living in bizarro land at the moment. Too many "deals" going round people are just waiting for someone to do things at a loss all the time.

 

[aptsys]

...wouldn't part with 400 quid (which was parts only!!!) for a wirefree system...

Neither would I. No one with common sense would opt for a wireless alarm system!

 

[ezzzekiel]

took 4 years to complete apprenticeship as plasterer, although after 6 months i was out on my own.
mind you rendering, pebble dash etc to a while longer to master

 

[stretchyboy]

Neither would I. No one with common sense would opt for a wireless alarm system!

I used to think that for the last 17 years i've been installing wired systems, but if you buy good kit there is nothing wrong with them. This kit is Grade 2 so it can connect to a central station/ police if you want and has 5yr battery life on sounder, 3yr battery life in panel and 2-3 years on detectors depending on usage....... half day install and no mess.

 

[cantabrian9]

yeh i can believe this kind of rate like one member said they normally work on price ,joiners on shopfitting normally get around 150 per day +30 to 40 per day Xs and they are only sticking a bit of wood up!!!! then you get some dipstick job foreman(joiner)shouting c;mon sparks yer holding the job up when they have finished banging their nails in ETC we are just starting second fix + commisioning!!!!!

 

[devon1]

Testing job nearby paying £11 per hour Self employed, all qualifications required, £8.60 paye government job. There ain't t no money in sparks jobs and there will not be again, if you can get out do it or if your happy on low pay stick with it, but forget about earning any descnt money. I don't think the rates will ever come back to what they should.

 

[Adam W]

Not while there are so many people offering to work for free.
Does that happen in other trades? Do tilers, plumbers, painters and decorators etc work for free to gain experience?

 

[paulthe spark]

I wouldn't worry guys the money will get
much better soon due to all the guys dropping out the trade due to poor wages there will be a shortage of sparks soon and this will again reflect on the wages

 

[devon1]

paulthe spark, This won't happen this time due to the new influx of workers from overseas. There are many sparks available at low wages, The sparks dropping out have found something better or retiring and are being replaced with sparks who are prepared to work for lower wages. The people wanting the work done can get their work done for lower labour costs, they will never be forced to pay more. why would they want to hand over more money? Get used to low pay, it's here to stay.

 

[Lyngarth]

I have been doing this work as a DI for two years now, before that, decorating and tiling, of which I still do a bit now and then.

I charge a flat rate of £185 per day (8 hrs ) for decorating or tiling and £210 for electrical work.

Have not been without work for the last 20+ yrs, but I find it a lot easier getting the money for the decorating than anything else.

Poeple can see the end results with this but not with wiring, so they think your on the make all the time.

 

[pennywise]

Maybe I could start tiling the fronts of socket outlets with mosaic tiles, or painting murals on them, I could start charging proper money and the customer might pay me on time

 

[livelounge]

I just feel as every trades getting easier ours osgetting harder there is always more electrical stuff going in to places now and what really annoys me is when someone wnats a job doing and go and tell them what involved in it and they dont want it done no-more do they think there is batteries behind switches and sockets really getting ----ed of with the trade now

 

[paulthe spark]

Lyngarth u only need to learn the art of plastering and you will be able to offer the complete service lol also what area are you in cuz at those sorts of rates ud b laughed at where I live but I'm up in the north I suppose

 

[cantabrian9]

every proper spark on this forum appears to be disallusioned the domestic boys buy test gear etc not cheap compared to just the odd trowel and float now and again (no calibration needed either!!) like others have quoted people DO NOT UNDERSTAND what is involved to get a light to work or power to a socket (when i was on my apprenticeship the spark told me "always remember boy WE are the scientist of the building trades") NOT NOW ? SAD!!

 

[martysparky]

I think it is fair to say that sparks do similar work as an accountant with all the math and regs etc involved nowdays but with the added graft of physical work.

we should be getting paid more for the amount of information to be considered not pushed / dumbed down.

What are all the regs going to do when nobody will pay for a spark and no spark can afford to meet the regs.

with that in mind is it a class collar war we are loosing.

 

[Lyngarth]

Lyngarth u only need to learn the art of plastering and you will be able to offer the complete service lol also what area are you in cuz at those sorts of rates ud b laughed at where I live but I'm up in the north I suppose

I did have a go at plastering on my own house, never again

I'm down here in Sunny Dorset. The money is still about down here but it is getting a little harder to find it out, but I have some very good customers and 90% of my new work is from word of mouth, so I'm very lucky.

I have been doing work for a top end kitchen company for 14yrs, hand painting the units on site, and now getting to do a lot of electrical work for them as well, which is good money and clean work.

Lyngarth

 

[martysparky]

have a read here.

http://www.electriciansforums.net/chit-chat-off-topic/14183-plastering-tips.html

I must say I had a go on my mrs hse

it come out ok not perfect but ok. will be better next time.

 

[devon1]

Government are employing fully qualified sparks for full range of electrical work at £8.60 an hour paye. To give you an idea of how low the UK electrical industry is going, in Australia the minimum wage for unskilled worker is $15 per hour = £8.82

 

[martysparky]

No disrespect to young men but who else could afford to work for that money.

obviously no experience needed

 

[Spudnik]

No disrespect to young men but who else could afford to work for that money.

I do agree here.

I have just lost a contract (small) to a newly trained sparky living at home.

£70 a day he is charging.

He also occasionally subbies for a firm who, when needed, will go in and sign his work off he has done for the public.

 

[amberleaf]

Working Around Other Trades !!!

Here’s a Good One !!
My Mates Cousin is in a Rented House , Electric Hob was Not Working , Telephoned the Landlord , Right said He , Get Someone Round as soon As ??
Well , Would you know it , A Plumber Done the Work , Not 17th Edition ?? , Sorry just Part P , His Reply was “ Like for Like “ how Long it took the Plumber , Half on Hour , Bill £70 Pounds , Sorry am in the Wrong Job ,

Big Mistake when they Gave Out Part P to Tom / Dick and Harry , Amber ,
Its being Exploited Big Time ,

Sorry to Hear you Lost Some Work Jason , Can’t Keep A Good Man Down , Ye

 

[Risteard]

in Australia the minimum wage for unskilled worker is $15 per hour = £8.82

Cost of living in Australia is a lot lower as well.

 

[blackiel]

Blame the Sparks who work too cheaply,now youve got to be able to sign off work as well,since this Domestic Installer rubbish,Part POO,its become another must have Qualification,rather than something you get paid extra for,what a cop out...............

 

[sbrown2]

As an industrial apprentice trained electrician I would say that my own personal experiences tell me what every sector you work in whether it be domestic, commercial or industrial you need to diversify. Although I was trained as an electrician my current role innvolves pneumatics, hydraulics, industrial controls, assisting with production and what ever is required. And why? Because companies do not want to pay for an Electrician and fitter or other skills that are required.
My point being the domestic and plumbing sectors have been attacked due to advocating competency via short courses and admission to self cert schemes. But maybe at the domestic end of the market they are potentially adding value to the customer. Lets face it if a tiler can be made competent to install sockets in a kitchen let the one man or team complete the job. But I hasten to add that if a domestic spark is any good and does a tidy job he should already have at least basic plastering and maybe tiling and concreting skills. He should with minimal training(maybe a short course) be able to attain a decent level of skill in these areas.
I generally do my own tiling but when I've had builders or tilers in and they do a good job and work hard I think they are worth at least the same as sparks due tio the effect they have on the job. However when on various electrical industrial jobs sparks should be getting over and above that of tilers and builders. This is because these sparks are beginning to utilise there technical knowledge more to complete their tasks.
Anyway, for what its worth grab as much money as you can!

Cheers

 

[martysparky]

As an industrial apprentice trained electrician I would say that my own personal experiences tell me what every sector you work in whether it be domestic, commercial or industrial you need to diversify. Although I was trained as an electrician my current role innvolves pneumatics, hydraulics, industrial controls, assisting with production and what ever is required. And why? Because companies do not want to pay for an Electrician and fitter or other skills that are required.
My point being the domestic and plumbing sectors have been attacked due to advocating competency via short courses and admission to self cert schemes. But maybe at the domestic end of the market they are potentially adding value to the customer. Lets face it if a tiler can be made competent to install sockets in a kitchen let the one man or team complete the job. But I hasten to add that if a domestic spark is any good and does a tidy job he should already have at least basic plastering and maybe tiling and concreting skills. He should with minimal training(maybe a short course) be able to attain a decent level of skill in these areas.
I generally do my own tiling but when I've had builders or tilers in and they do a good job and work hard I think they are worth at least the same as sparks due tio the effect they have on the job. However when on various electrical industrial jobs sparks should be getting over and above that of tilers and builders. This is because these sparks are beginning to utilise there technical knowledge more to complete their tasks.
Anyway, for what its worth grab as much money as you can!

Cheers

I think that is a very good analogy of the current situation as all trades are jumping on the spark front with a green P on the rear of the vehicle then as a lot of sparks have said 'if a builder etc can do it i'm sure a spark can'.

I too can tile, hang doors, fit showers, baths, etc. If a spark can fit a new ceiling etc he can do a wall. so why would you expect your customer to pay for a builder and plasterer if you can save them the money and get extra work.
It all about utilizing your skills and making the most of what you are able to do. Not just what your willing to do. If you are capable and willing why not.

lol. train to be a spark then become a painter...I know... but it is hard times...so if I have no spark work and someone wants a new fence I would not say no.

saying that the other week my mate who is a kitchen fitter had a call to hang some pictures, he didn't want it and asked me if I would. I popped round to see the guy and he wanted all the fixtures fitted in a new house. It took me four hours and I earned £100. I charged a professional rate as someone with no electrical knowledge could well have drilled into wiring and that is probably why he wanted someone to do it for him.