Utility Room Sockets

[Piratepete]

Hi Guys
Client wants 3 wall mounted under-the-unit sockets for washing m/c, dishwasher and tumble drier. There is a lightly used ring cct available above the units. He doesn't want 3 isolation switches above the units due to having a stainless steel splash back and there's no access below.

Is it acceptable to put one 32 amp isolation switch in the ring and feed a radial from the switch to the 3 sockets via 4 sqmm T&E?

It's not a solution shown on the pretty diagram at the back of the Regs, but I don't see why not?

Cheers

Pete

 

[Pete999]

Why not put a 3 gang module away from the steel splash back and feed the sockets from there

 

[westward10]

Why do you need isolators.

 

[telectrix]

get him to fit castors to the machines so he can drag them out to isolate.

 

[Tink]

get him to fit castors to the machines so he can drag them out to isolate.

Yes that’s very helpful – why not reply to Piratepete post more obliging, rather than being silly!

 

[The Ghost]

Sounds like possible over load there.

 

[westward10]

Sounds like possible over load there.

Definately on the 4.0

 

[Pete999]

Hi Guys
Client wants 3 wall mounted under-the-unit sockets for washing m/c, dishwasher and tumble drier. There is a lightly used ring cct available above the units. He doesn't want 3 isolation switches above the units due to having a stainless steel splash back and there's no access below.

Is it acceptable to put one 32 amp isolation switch in the ring and feed a radial from the switch to the 3 sockets via 4 sqmm T&E?

It's not a solution shown on the pretty diagram at the back of the Regs, but I don't see why not?

Cheers

Pete

Yes that’s very helpful – why not reply to Piratepete post more obliging, rather than being silly!

There you go Tel consider yourself severely chastised lol

 

[Rpa07]

Yeh watch out Tel - Tinks been here for 12 posts - BACK IN YOUR BASKET!

 

[telectrix]

There you go Tel consider yourself severely chastised lol

young whippersnappers. no sense of humour. my post was directed at his customer that don't want above worktop isolation.

 

[telectrix]

Yeh watch out Tel - Tinks been here for 12 posts - BACK IN YOUR BASKET!

adolph hitler tried . nobody else has come close. my mam was pregnant and was hit by one of them V1 flying bombs. went straight in 1 ear and out the other.

 

[HandySparks]

Definately on the 4.0

Depends on the circuit protection, surely?

 

[The Ghost]

Your Mothers ears, or yours. Mmm could explain some things.

 

[kingeri]

The 4mm shouldn't be overloaded if clipped direct, it can handle 37A, and I assume the OCPD is a 32A breaker. However, it would overload the point of the ring where this 'branch' originates from, hence why I wouldn't do it. Just extend the ring and forget about isolators!

 

[The Ghost]

@kingeri Yeh but those machines may all be rated at 3kw if they were going at the same time...maybe marginal though

 

[kingeri]

@kingeri Yeh but those machines may all be rated at 3kw if they were going at the same time...maybe marginal though

In that case the ring itself would be overloaded and hence unsuitable to connect these loads to.

 

[westward10]

Not likely to be used at once I wouldn't have thought.

 

[Wilko]

Not likely to be used at once I wouldn't have thought.

And the each will have their own power use pattern, so you'd need to be unlucky to get all 3 running and running their max current at same time.

FWIW at mine it turns out kitchen and utility room was wired on one RFC and it supports kettle, toaster, micro, dishwasher, washer, dryer and a big fridge. I've not said anything to family and they just get on and jam. I did confirm it is a proper ring and the mcb is not cooked, yet

 

[telectrix]

And the each will have their own power use pattern, so you'd need to be unlucky to get all 3 running and running their max current at same time.

FWIW at mine it turns out kitchen and utility room was wired on one RFC and it supports kettle, toaster, micro, dishwasher, washer, dryer and a big fridge. I've not said anything to family and they just get on and jam. I did confirm it is a proper ring and the mcb is not cooked, yet

we got all that (except for washer/dryer) plus half the downstairs sockets all on a 16A MCB radial. never tripped except when a vivarium heat lamp blew and took out the MCB.

 

[westward10]

My house is on a single ring final, never tripped.

 

[kingeri]

My house had all sockets on a 16A MCB for long enough, and tbh I can't recall having many trips.

 

[Octopus]

Why do you need isolators.

Presumably the sockets are going to behind the white goods...... So isolators are needed if you ask me...

 

[westward10]

Presumably the sockets are going to behind the white goods...... So isolators are needed if you ask me...

Personal preference I would say.

 

[Octopus]

Personal preference I would say.

A socket behind a Washing machine is not accessible ......

 

[hightower]

A socket behind a Washing machine is not accessible ......

But the mcb should be accessible to isolate if needed

 

[Octopus]

But the mcb should be accessible to isolate if needed

But when the RCD starts tripping you need accessible isolation to eliminate such appliances.....

 

[Wilko]

I can't find a 7671 regulation and my IET builders guide says if the appliance can be pulled out then the plug and switch behind is ok. So common sense applies ? (not make life tough )

 

[Midwest]

Why not put the sockets in an adjacent floor unit, as been advised millions, well quite a few times on this forum before.

 

[westward10]

But when the RCD starts tripping you need accessible isolation to eliminate such appliances.....

I don't believe BS7671 define accessible.

 

[DPG]

I don't believe BS7671 define accessible.

They don't, but if they did then I'm pretty sure they wouldn't deem a socket behind a washing machine as being accessible. Daz

 

[Wilko]

For the area under the bath to be outside zone 1 it must be "only accessible with a tool" (701.32.3). So this means if I don't have to use a tool to get to something, then perhaps it's accessible. Clearly a gorilla could get access to pretty much whatever it wanted

 

[westward10]

I wouldn't say a socket behind a washing machine, assuming it is not built in is inaccessible.

 

[Octopus]

Another glaring omission from the regs.

Having to move a white goods item weighing about 35 kg is not accessible, moving some cans of beans is imho

 

[westward10]

Tis certainly grey, the definition of accessible is very open.

 

[HandySparks]

Another glaring omission from the regs.

Having to move a white goods item weighing about 35 kg is not accessible, moving some cans of beans is imho

But if you're a good boy and eat all your beans, you'll grow big and strong and be able to move the washing machine.

 

[kingeri]

I remember my dad ripping our washing machine out and throwing it through the back door when I was a kid. It was on fire at the time. I wonder if he managed to isolate it first. I just remember being in awe of his seemingly super human strength!

 

[Midwest]

My Mum used to do that every Saturday, when she did the weekly wash (cutting edge technology then, tin bath before). She'd manhandle the thing from the shed into the kitchen. The thing was louder than Concorde taking off.

 

[Rpa07]

Ah the 'Toploader' - preferred the noise the band made than those clacking away. My mum used a pair of wooden tongs, metal sprung end that were so old that the wood was like velvet in texture (they saw some action) - a phenomenon as a child.

 

[westward10]

Ah the 'Toploader' - preferred the noise the band made than those clacking away. My mum used a pair of wooden tongs, metal sprung end that were so old that the wood was like velvet in texture (they saw some action) - a phenomenon as a child.

That has taken me back, my ma had tongs just the same they were always slippery and sleek on the wood.

 

[Midwest]

Yep and there was a little plastic perforated lid, to cover the wet clothes as they were spun dried, with the metal lid closed.

As it's Xmas, I can also remember my Mum using metal quadruple stove steamers, to cook the veg & Xmas pudding.

 

[westward10]

Yep and there was a little plastic perforated lid, to cover the wet clothes as they were spun dried, with the metal lid closed.

As it's Xmas, I can also remember my Mum using metal quadruple stove steamers, to cook the veg & Xmas pudding.

My mum's was a perforated rubber disc, those were the days.

 

[Rpa07]

I use triple steamers, sometimes leave one empty which totally confuses me - doesn't take much!

 

[Rpa07]

That has taken me back, my ma had tongs just the same they were always slippery and sleek on the wood.

That's the ones - kind of entrancing as a child - she would use the same ones for boiling my dads snotty hankies so I wasn't always enamoured with them!

 

[Midwest]

My mum's was a perforated rubber disc, those were the days.

I stand corrected, twas rubber. Bit early for pvc

 

[Midwest]

My mum used a pair of wooden tongs, metal sprung end that were so old that the wood was like velvet in texture (they saw some action) - a phenomenon as a child.

Seem to remember getting hit with them.

 

[Rpa07]

That's them - never got hit though - that's where the green garden cane came into it, an arms length plus 3 feet of cane she was still swift on her feet. I do love her, in her 89th year now we laugh about it!