What is the correct way to spur off a ceiling rose on a normal ring circuit?

[EasyGoingPat]

Hi,

I have a standard single ceiling light that I wish to convert to a set of three light fittings, physically right next to each other and controlled by the same switch.

What is the correct (and preferably easiest) way to connect this up?

Kind wishes - Patrick

 

[Spoon]

It all depends on what type of fitting and how the current light is wired up and what the new light fittings look like.
You could use a wago box and wago 221 terminals for the wiring...
Can you post pics of the new light fittings and the existing light wiring. Make sure you switch off the power to the light at the CU before messing with the fittings.

 

[telectrix]

and take a photo of the connections before you diss anything

 

[EasyGoingPat]

Thank you for the replies. I have attached a photo of the existing fitting. The ones that are going up are bog-standard pendant fittings, bought from Screwfix if I remember correctly. I can get a photo of one if this is needed.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/fkwbrd90wrfevef/IMG_0604.JPG?dl=0

 

[littlespark]

I'll repost the pic if you dont mind... rather than going into your dropbox...



So the 3 red wires are permanently live.... These will give you nasty bite, so please isolate at the board.
Also, when you disconnect, watch that piece of brown sleeving doesn't slip off.

The best way is to replace this with a joint box hidden in the ceiling, and running a twin and earth cable to each of the 3 new fittings, connected to where the pendant flex is here... (outer brown and blue)
Make sure the earthwire is also connected, even if your new fittings dont require it, it still needs to be present at the new positions.

 

[EasyGoingPat]

You've made my day! That was how I was going to do it. I couldn't see anything unsafe with doing that but my background is in electrical engineering, not domestic electrics, so I thought I'd better check on here to make sure I'm not falling foul of wiring regs.

Thank you very much for the advice and to all who have read and/or commented on my post.


- Patrick

 

[EasyGoingPat]

I'll repost the pic if you dont mind... rather than going into your dropbox...

View attachment 61559

So the 3 red wires are permanently live.... These will give you nasty bite, so please isolate at the board.
Also, when you disconnect, watch that piece of brown sleeving doesn't slip off.

The best way is to replace this with a joint box hidden in the ceiling, and running a twin and earth cable to each of the 3 new fittings, connected to where the pendant flex is here... (outer brown and blue)
Make sure the earthwire is also connected, even if your new fittings dont require it, it still needs to be present at the new positions.

A follow-on question has occurred to me: do I need to run the same gauge wire as is used in the ring (2.5mm?) to each of the light fittings? I'm guessing maybe yes because no fuse is involved anywhere but it's going to be a fiddle to get all the wires into my junction box (reminds me of a certain film: "We're gonna need a bigger junction box.").

 

[EasyGoingPat]

It all depends on what type of fitting and how the current light is wired up and what the new light fittings look like.
You could use a wago box and wago 221 terminals for the wiring...
Can you post pics of the new light fittings and the existing light wiring. Make sure you switch off the power to the light at the CU before messing with the fittings.

Just had a look at the Wago box. Not seen that before. Thanks for the tip!

 

[littlespark]

The wiring at the lights should be 1.00 or 1.5mm ... there’s no need to use 2.5

most big shed retailers will sell it by the metre.

 

[SJD]

A follow-on question has occurred to me: do I need to run the same gauge wire as is used in the ring (2.5mm?) to each of the light fittings? I'm guessing maybe yes because no fuse is involved anywhere but it's going to be a fiddle to get all the wires into my junction box (reminds me of a certain film: "We're gonna need a bigger junction box.").

Only builders wire lighting in 2.5mm2 twin & earth, as they only carry one size of cable!

More seriously, if this is a lighting circuit on a 6A MCB (or RCBO or 5A fuse), then you can wire the new fittings in 1.0 or 1.5mm2 twin & earth.

 

[ipf]

2.5 cable, spurring from a rose on a normal ring?
Using such terminology, I must admit, I'm hoping OP has some serious engineering skills and isn't taking the pee.

 

[7029 dave]

2.5 cable, spurring from a rose on a normal ring?
Using such terminology, I must admit, I'm hoping OP has some serious engineering skills and isn't taking the pee.

LOL yeah will be wrestling them conductors in with that gauge. Ring?

 

[ipf]

Looking at that rose photo, I never can understand why people 'double up' without using available terminals! Look at the damaged screwheads, 2 completely perfect!!

 

[seanpress]

A follow-on question has occurred to me: do I need to run the same gauge wire as is used in the ring (2.5mm?) to each of the light fittings? I'm guessing maybe yes because no fuse is involved anywhere but it's going to be a fiddle to get all the wires into my junction box (reminds me of a certain film: "We're gonna need a bigger junction box.").

No lighting is wired in 1.5mm2 twin and earth and make sure you sleeve the earth conductor with green and yellow sleeveing

 

[pc1966]

With some of the LED drivers these days it is better to use 1mm instead of 1.5mm as they are a pain to get the conductor wrangled in to the terminals.

 

[EasyGoingPat]

2.5 cable, spurring from a rose on a normal ring?
Using such terminology, I must admit, I'm hoping OP has some serious engineering skills and isn't taking the pee.

Well, I once built a computer from the level of individual resistors and capacitors but, as I said, I am not familiar with domestic wiring regs. Hence my question, based on the knowledge that these higher voltages and currents can be dangerous. But, yes, as soon as I'd made the post and gone in the loft to do the actual work, I did realise that it was a bit silly. One glance at 2.5mm cable made me realise that I'd have to be powering a garden full of halogen lights for that to be necessary. On closer inspection, the lighting ring is indeed 1.5mm.

 

[littlespark]

Its just the wrong terminology.

A "ring" is normally used with sockets, where a twin and earth cable leaves the fuseboard, drops off at every socket on the circuit with a "one in, one out" and returns to the fuseboard, hence a ring circuit.

A lighting circuit, and most others are "radial" like the branches of a tree.

With low energy lamps, 1.0mm is much more common now