Commercial EICR - Your opinion?

[HomeCert ltd]

Hi All,

Being doing a commercial EICR over night (7-7) for the past week, still got a good few nights to go.

The installation is most likely 40-50 years old, was originally done well. About 5 years ago they had another contractor redo a lot of the electrics to accommodate the current owner. The previous electricains work is unreal, he has completely ruined the installation.

I'm not 100% sure how to approach this. There's a lot a minor things which need doing which I will report back, but the lighting in some of the areas is unreal. The previous contractor had used SY cable everywhere, not correctly terminated at any point, which I found out is carrying a healthy 157v on the braiding. Basically every earth has been cut out throughout the lighting, mainly class 2 fittings, but due to the fact a lot of he circuits are new and all the existing work has an earth, would that be a C2. As it should comply with when he installed it.

Also getting 287v back down a neutral when not connected via a circuit fed by a Seperate DB on the other side. Earths used as feeds in some cases, some lighting circuits supplied via 2/3 circuits, all with no CPC and low IR. Due to the fact it's suspended ceilings everywhere etc... I was thinking it might just be easy to just redo a lot of the lighting instead of trying to break it down and see what's salvageable.

What would any of you do?

 

[diditrain]

Submit your unsatisfactory report and get paid. Then discuss both options with the client.
If it`s as bad as you say, then it may take you as long and cost as much to rectify, than to rip it out and start again.

 

[Richard Burns]

You are doing the report at the moment so continue with that until complete but it maybe prudent to advise your client of the nature of the findings so far to prewarn them, but only provide full detail in the report or you may miss things and may be asked to stop the report.
The lighting is bad and the crossover of circuits is very worrying.
You state mainly class II fittings which means some are not class II so lack of earthing would be a C2 classification.
It may be easiest to keep light fittings and replace wiring runs but the layout of the circuits will determine the most appropriate method of rectification.

 

[westward10]

Concentrate on compiling a concise Report and using your judgement, suitably Code any issues. Do not fall into the trap of drifting to remedial solutions which will divert you from the task at hand.

 

[KEV 1 N]

It’s a shame when an old but perfectly useable installation is butchered by some body who doesn’t know and/or care what they are doing.
I’ve come across it all too often.....although nothing as bad as you describe.
Basically condemn it with C2 and FI comments where needed and as others have mentioned, worry about sorting it out later on when the report is completed.

 

[The Ghost]

I am puzzled. 157v on braiding? Is that not a real and immediate risk of electric shock? If so would it not warrant a C1. In which case the person ordering the work should be informed in writing and the inspection halted until that situation has been dealt with???

 

[Toneyz]

I take it this is where the old installation has been adapted by the electrician that installed the new lighting?

 

[westward10]

I am puzzled. 157v on braiding? Is that not a real and immediate risk of electric shock? If so would it not warrant a C1. In which case the person ordering the work should be informed in writing and the inspection halted until that situation has been dealt with???

Sounds a bit dramatic

 

[The Ghost]

Yeh might be a bit dramatic for you if you contact such voltage as well.

 

[westward10]

I meant halting the inspection. I am three quarters through an 800+ plus test and if I took this type of action I would be downing tools every hour.

 

[HomeCert ltd]

I agree, I wouldn't stop the inspection due to an issue like this. Simply make safe if possible or as I did, tape over the braiding which was exposed for the time being, with dozens of pictures etc... and note everything on report.

 

[HomeCert ltd]

Always good to know how others carry out their work, when doing an EICR would you simply test the IR on a DB as a whole. Did a 48 way board the other night, low IR with a 3 pole main switch, so went through one by one to identify one circuit which was low. But I remember when I was taught the guy who taught be said not to do that, record low IR for the board as a whole and then call for further investigation to identify any specific circuits.

 

[ipf]

Always good to know how others carry out their work, when doing an EICR would you simply test the IR on a DB as a whole. Did a 48 way board the other night, low IR with a 3 pole main switch, so went through one by one to identify one circuit which was low. But I remember when I was taught the guy who taught be said not to do that, record low IR for the board as a whole and then call for further investigation to identify any specific circuits.

I suppose it depends on different things.
What your quote or allows for.
Agreements made with the client beforehand.
Relationship with the client and what they expect.
Time scales, etc.
If it's not a quite recently installed job, without additions or alterations (in other words, a dream), it would be very unusual to be able to do a successful global IR test on such a board.

 

[ipf]

I suppose it depends on different things.
What your quote or allows for.
Agreements made with the client beforehand.
Relationship with the client and what they expect.
Time scales, etc.
If it's not a quite recently installed job, without additions or alterations (in other words, a dream), it would be very unusual to be able to do a successful global IR test on such a board.

If you could get extra time doing testing, which in my opinion, is part of the job anyway, good luck....but not my way....nor yours, I feel.

 

[westward10]

Rarely do a global IR as I generally work large commercial or industrial sites and from past experience it rarely pans out unless it is a few rudimentary circuits.

 

[ipf]

Rarely do a global IR as I generally work large commercial or industrial sites and from past experience it rarely pans out unless it is a few rudimentary circuits.

Exactly. Same here.

 

[Ian1981]

Most of the time if you do a global IR test on a 3 phase db then it’s gonna be less than 1Mohm so it’s pointless in my eyes.

 

[Ian1981]

Always good to know how others carry out their work, when doing an EICR would you simply test the IR on a DB as a whole. Did a 48 way board the other night, low IR with a 3 pole main switch, so went through one by one to identify one circuit which was low. But I remember when I was taught the guy who taught be said not to do that, record low IR for the board as a whole and then call for further investigation to identify any specific circuits.

I suppose if your IR reading for the whole board was 1Mohm or higher then it is acceptable but I would note it in the comments section

 

[Risteard]

Most of the time if you do a global IR test on a 3 phase db then it’s gonna be less than 1Mohm so it’s pointless in my eyes.

That problem won't disappear if you test them individually though as the requirement is for the insulation of the whole installation or DB to be above the values and not simply each circuit.

 

[Ian1981]

That problem won't disappear if you test them individually though as the requirement is for the insulation of the whole installation or DB to be above the values and not simply each circuit.

Just pointing out it’s in my opinion to test the circuits individually as the bigger the installation and circuit numbers then the lower the resistance in terms of going a global test