20 Radial Sockets with only 1 T&E cable going to all 20

[Spazz]

Doing a EICR on a house.

Situation

Radial on a 20A MCB
20 Sockets on Radial
Each socket on that radial has only 1 x 2.5mm T&E going to each socket

Am I right to think that the person who did the work (the landlord) has spared off a JB in above the roof to each socket

From looking at the rest of the house, there are several C1s, C2s, and loads of C3s (4 pages in total) - including no bonding and only a 2mm cable from main earth (TN-S) to CU

Also am I right in thinking this is a C3 as it is not dangerous even if a fault occurs???

 

[mayfair]

2.5 off a 20A breaker. dont sound right to me. but ive been away a long time. Is it 2.5 in the jb's ......where its been spured off as such

 

[SYKRAPS]

Judging by the 4 pages of Codes the landlord will be disappointed by the unsatisfactory EICR he is about to receive.

Difficult to answer the question asked without seeing the job in question but I would certainly investigate further, I guess probably no grommets, capping or earth sleeving either as it suggests some diy has gone on?

How many conductors leave the 20A MCB in the DB?

 

[Strima]

Am I right to think that the person who did the work (the landlord) has spared off a JB in above the roof to each socket

Sounds like it, bet they're inaccessible screw terminals as well...

including no bonding and only a 2mm cable from main earth (TN-S) to CU

Also am I right in thinking this is a C3 as it is not dangerous even if a fault occurs???

Main earth is 2mm? I would be putting that as a minimum C2, possibly a C1 depending on the state of the rest of the install backed up with an adiabatic equation. In fact C1 then with the clients consent fit a suitable cable that won't vapourise when a fault occurs.

 

[Spazz]

1 single T&E enters the CU (MCB) and runs up trunking to the roof (between floors)
I am not in the mood to start lifting floorboards as yet
I have contacted Building Control to see what work has been signed off on the house with the response of nothing since Part P started in 1995
(its had a new boiler/new gas fires downstairs/new gas pipes/RCD swapped from Main Switch/New Circuits added) - all notifiable

The cables from the sockets in each room run up to the roof (for ground floor) and down to the floor (for 1st floor) in trunking with only 1 cable in each

Thinking they have to join somewhere to get power (spared off a JB between floors - my guess)

Im also not sure what the situation is with regards to the 20 sockets on 2.5 T&E all spared off from JBs on a 20A - no sure if there is a 4mm min here as per Apx 15??? - nothing has FSUs as I can see


This is 100% a DIY job - I would walk away from it normally but its a house i am renting - its taken me over 3 week to do this EICR as I keep finding stuff - I have already put in for a re-wire of all lighting (no CPC on Class 1 accessories) and now putting in for all sockets to be added to that as well


I know that all screws on JBs are completely inaccessible here

 

[mayfair]

Id be running away

1 single T&E enters the CU (MCB) and runs up trunking to the roof (between floors)
I am not in the mood to start lifting floorboards as yet
I have contacted Building Control to see what work has been signed off on the house with the response of nothing since Part P started in 1995
(its had a new boiler/new gas fires downstairs/new gas pipes/RCD swapped from Main Switch/New Circuits added) - all notifiable

The cables from the sockets in each room run up to the roof (for ground floor) and down to the floor (for 1st floor) in trunking with only 1 cable in each

Thinking they have to join somewhere to get power (spared off a JB between floors - my guess)

Im also not sure what the situation is with regards to the 20 sockets on 2.5 T&E all spared off from JBs on a 20A - no sure if there is a 4mm min here as per Apx 15??? - nothing has FSUs as I can see


This is 100% a DIY job - I would walk away from it normally but its a house i am renting - its taken me over 3 week to do this EICR as I keep finding stuff - I have already put in for a re-wire of all lighting (no CPC on Class 1 accessories) and now putting in for all sockets to be added to that as well


I know that all screws on JBs are completely inaccessible here

 

[Spazz]

Just a thought with the no CPC on lighting circuit - correct me if Im wrong

No CPC in any light switches so if a fault occurred in the switch (line went to metal (metal clad boxes) - not earth as no CPC to connect to earth)
That would make all screws live as well - C2 Im thinking????

 

[Strima]

Re: 20 Radial Sockets with only 1 T&E cable going to all 20

Just a thought with the no CPC on lighting circuit - correct me if Im wrong

No CPC in any light switches so if a fault occurred in the switch (line went to metal (metal clad boxes) - not earth as no CPC to connect to earth)
That would make all screws live as well - C2 Im thinking????

Replace all fittings with class ones, label on CU stating no CPC etc. As for the screws replace the metal ones with nylons.

- - - Updated - - -

Just a thought with the no CPC on lighting circuit - correct me if Im wrong

No CPC in any light switches so if a fault occurred in the switch (line went to metal (metal clad boxes) - not earth as no CPC to connect to earth)
That would make all screws live as well - C2 Im thinking????

Replace all fittings with class ones, label on CU stating no CPC etc. As for the screws replace the metal ones with nylons.

 

[Strima]

The forum is doing funny things again, I'm scared... :lol:

 

[SYKRAPS]

I would push for a full re-wire if the landlord has agreed to the lights and admitted doing the sockets and other work him/herself.

There is a clear doubt in your mind regarding the installation from your comments and I personally prefer to sleep well at night, something that I would be able to do living at this house.

 

[Spazz]

Re: 20 Radial Sockets with only 1 T&E cable going to all 20

Replace all fittings with class ones, label on CU stating no CPC etc. As for the screws replace the metal ones with nylons.

Not sure if you got this right - why replace all fittings with class one?? - thats metal - class 2 is plastic

Its a house Im renting (I have kids) so I want it correct and not going to take no for an answer - Im just thinking of the 4 months rent free that I will get

 

[Spazz]

I would push for a full re-wire if the landlord has agreed to the lights and admitted doing the sockets and other work him/herself.

There is a clear doubt in your mind regarding the installation from your comments and I personally prefer to sleep well at night, something that I would be able to do living at this house.

I have to persuade the agents electrician now (16th Ed qualified - not registered) - if he says yes to the rewire then the agent will tell the landlord that they must get it done to have it rented anymore


The landlord has never said about doing the work themselves - but they did say they had it done by qualified persons (my a***) and they walked off due to no payment from landlord - does not effect me as I will have an agreement where my rent is free for a period of time before I start work - something that can be used in court if needed

 

[Spazz]

Also what is the situation with a boiler in the bathroom - class 1 equipment in a special location (bathroom) - they have extended the cable to reach a socket outside the bathroom door (8meters in total) - joint hidden in the wall - I hope not another JB!!!

Any plumbers here who can answer this??

 

[Des 56]

Replace all fittings with class ones, label on CU stating no CPC etc. As for the screws replace the metal ones with nylons.

C'mon now strima,your losing your counting skills:yes:


Nicholas,i am going to plat Devils advocate

Why do you mention the quantity of sockets on the radial ?,there may be other factors,but there is no set limit on the amount installed
If you are correct that the sockets have all been "jbeeed" and you have not located the joints,how can you be sure they are not maintenance free

The radial circuit would not be like the ones shown in the appendix,however there are other ways of constructing a compliant circuit

It seems you have found a dogs breakfast,but you have not yet found the proof

 

[SYKRAPS]

Sounds like a nest of vipers to me

 

[Spazz]

Replace all fittings with class ones, label on CU stating no CPC etc. As for the screws replace the metal ones with nylons.

C'mon now strima,your losing your counting skills:yes:


Nicholas,i am going to plat Devils advocate

Why do you mention the quantity of sockets on the radial ?,there may be other factors,but there is no set limit on the amount installed
If you are correct that the sockets have all been "jbeeed" and you have not located the joints,how can you be sure they are not maintenance free

The radial circuit would not be like the ones shown in the appendix,however there are other ways of constructing a compliant circuit

It seems you have found a dogs breakfast,but you have not yet found the proof

Up comes the floorboards in the morning I think!

 

[Jdsparky]

Looks like the landlord is gonna take the easy option and kick u out for all the money he's gonna lose in rent through you finding all these problems that gonna cost ££££.....they're all the same, they never wanna spend a penny if they can help it

 

[richy3333]

Re: 20 Radial Sockets with only 1 T&E cable going to all 20

Replace all fittings with class ones.

erm eh?

 

[Jdsparky]

He means really good ones, class ones, he's down with the kids.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

A radial wired in 2.5 and protected by a 20A MCB is acceptable, as long as the cable installation method does not de-rate the cable below 20A.
There is no minimum or maximum number of sockets allowed.
It's unlikely that the earth conductor is 2mm² more likely 2.5mm², which is the minimum CSA allowed if mechanically protected and PME conditions do not apply.
I take it you haven't any limitations?