3rd amendment (again)

[Pete999]

There are already intumescent inserts available for back boxes so it's not such a leap to have a pad with knockouts at the rear of the CU.

Couldn't think of intumescent

 

[ruston]

It's a word that slips the mind easily , I can never remember how to spell it, never mind say it.

 

[Octopus]

I do wonder if the muppets at BEMA and the IET have "clocked" all the threads on this forum, and others, pointing out how blxxdy stupid this reg is.........

As far as I can see, if the rulling is for metal CU's for domestic, all it will do, is drive more business away from the legitimate sparks and into the hands of the trade bodgers - who are probably the cause of the problem in the first place - which wil only make things worse!

 

[ruston]

I do wonder if the muppets at BEMA and the IET have "clocked" all the threads on this forum, and others, pointing out how blxxdy stupid this reg is.........

As far as I can see, if the rulling is for metal CU's for domestic, all it will do, is drive more business away from the legitimate sparks and into the hands of the trade bodgers - who are probably the cause of the problem in the first place - which wil only make things worse!

I wish I could double like your post , you are spot on.

 

[topquark]

The new reg is 421.1.201 and applies to domestic only. The reg applies to CU's and "Similar switchgear". Should compy with BSEN 61439-3 and be "non combustible" (not defined!) OR enclosed in a non combustible enclosure.

 

[GB.Kayak]

Well it seems to be the general consensus on here that CUs only go up in flames because they're not installed properly, and not because they're made out of plastic.
Reasons for a CU not having been installed properly could be that they were installed by a DIYer, or by a tradesman whose training and level of expertise only extends as far as domestic and is therefore considerably more limited than that of an electrician who does commercial and industrial work.

So, another (potentially serious) problem where we can point the finger of blame squarely at the DIYer/Electrical Trainee.

It will be interesting to see if the likes of B&Q continue selling plastic CUs after the amendment comes into force; wherever there is a market for bending the rules, big companies with big legal departments always seem to work a way around legislation, rendering it a pointless hindrance for those who were doing things properly in the first place.

BS 7671 is not legislation ... it is an 'approved' code of practice, compliance with which may keep the HSE off your back in the event that someone is hurt by your workmanship!

 

[Adam W]

BS 7671 is not legislation ... it is an 'approved' code of practice, compliance with which may keep the HSE off your back in the event that someone is hurt by your workmanship!

I didn't say it was, but there was legislation saying tungsten filament bulbs couldn't be sold or fitted, which has been circumvented.

 

[Plonker 3]

I didn't say it was, but there was legislation saying tungsten filament bulbs couldn't be sold or fitted, which has been circumvented.

I thought they could no longer produce them, but were allowed to sell off any existing stock of them

 

[Adam W]

I thought they could no longer produce them, but were allowed to sell off any existing stock of them

They can and do still produce and sell rough service bulbs.

 

[shanky887614]

Ive been an avid reader of the threads regarding non combustible CUs, everyone and their dog are talking about metal CUs, a couple of points.

We aren't what the outcome will be yet, I agree it's looking likely that the domestic CU will be made of metal, which brings me to my second point, how on earth are the powers that be going to get over cable access, we all know, or at least most of us do, the method of cable entry in metal CUs is via knockouts specifically designed for either conduit or cable glands. I can't for the life of me think Mr and Mrs Joe public will put up with conduit protruding from the ceiling to allow cable entry, no they will want a nice neat box on the wall that they can forget about until something goes wrong.

The only way I can see of overcoming this problem, should the decision be made to instal metal CUs would be to have an area, or areas depending upon the fixing and cable entry position, made of some sort of flameproof pliable self sealing material (if one exists) to allow the cables to be pushed through. Or am I living in a fantasy world honest answers only please, I'm in one of my more thoughtful moods.

jigsaw, grommet strip and a tube of fire mastic job done.

 

[shanky887614]

The new reg is 421.1.201 and applies to domestic only. The reg applies to CU's and "Similar switchgear". Should compy with BSEN 61439-3 and be "non combustible" (not defined!) OR enclosed in a non combustible enclosure.

S 476: Part 4: 1970 Non-combustibility test for materials
This test classifies materials as either ‘non-combustible’ or ‘combustible’. It is the most stringent standard for the fire performance of materials and gives a measure of the heat and flames generated by the material under standard heating conditions. Non-combustible materials can be used without restriction anywhere in a building. Their use ensures that hazards due to smoke and toxic gases are minimised and that the fabric of a building will not make a contribution to a fire.

it could be made out of plastic and comply

 

[SirKit Breaker]

It is right, CU/DB's will have to be non combustable from Jan 2016. The way round this is quite easy.

Most Industrial and Commercial are metal clad anyway so no issues here. In domestic most are Plastic, and you will still need to be able to fit them, but you will have to put some sort of metal casing or cover over it that will contain a fire. Remember the regs are guidance, so as long as you do something to contain a fire (remember CU's are made of self extinguishing material) you will be OK.

The manufacturers will come up with a solution to the problem of plastic CU's before January, just like they did when fire rated down lights first appeared.

All material, metal or otherwise, even if they are fire proof will catch fire if they get hot enough. Everything has a flashpoint.

Cheers.............Howard

 

[Knobhead]

Phenolic plastics look them up

 

[Engineer54]

They could always go back to using ''Bakalite'' as the material for CU enclosures (circ old wylex 3036 CU's) and far stiffer too. Which i think is a Phenolic plastic compound.

Still can't see what's wrong with the current CU plastics that's used throughout the EU. So much for harmonisation!!

 

[Knobhead]

The old Wylex 3036 boards is the reason I was looking for phenolic plastics.

Since this palaver about fireproof started I’ve been wracking my brain for the type of plastic used. I had a brain fart a couple of days ago and finally remembered.

Everyone moans about “flimsy” plastic boards, depending on the filler used in the plastic they can be made rigid but also fragile. Although to be honest I’ve never seen the main body of a Wylex board broken. The covers were easy to break if you didn’t know how to remove the centre section when fitting MCB’s.

 

[the pict]

Hardly a consolation if ouo return home from a week end in the Wolds to find a smoking hole where your house should be to find an astonishingly intact CU with a metal label saying "Conforms to AMd3"
Pict

 

[Snapester]

Don't also forget that all fixings cables ties, trunking etc will need to be non combustable material also. Sounds like so much fun! Pricing jobs is going out the window!

 

[shanky887614]

why dont we all wire the incomer through a contacter linked to the fire alarm, alarm goes off, power goes off

with a heat detector inside the db

 

[telectrix]

having given the matter considerable thought, i have , at great expense, purchased a new type of plastic, imported from Holland. experimentation with this material is ongoing, but initial results look promising. a blowlamp applied will not cause ignition: a sample is at present undergoing testing in a pottery kiln, heating up to 1500deg.C. so far , no signs of ignition. there is only one drawback to be addressed so far, and that is that , under extreme heat, the product gives off a rather unpleasant odour. for those of you who are waiting with bated breath, the product under test is ..................... edam. yup. let's make CUs from cheese.

 

[Silly Sausage]

...at great expense, imported from Holland ...

You forgot to check inside!
Did your kiln get extremely stoned?