Am I Too Old to spark (for older sparks)?

[eleclio]

Hi Guys any of the older generation had this problem with their grading.
I'm a time served Approved, or thought I was.
In the early 1980's I got my approved card from the SJIB.
During the last 23years I've worked in the Security Alarm industry.
I was made redundant dec2011, and am chasing the spark trade,
even for a sparks mate jobs to get me back in (I know things have changed).

:furious3:My problem is the SJIB & the JIB have no record of me ever being a spark.

Although I have the 15th & 16th IEE regs.
I'm about to sit my 17th (Full 3 day course) but now have my doubts if I'll
even get an Standard Electricians card.
(in fairness the JIB stated they would have to honour my full apprenticeship)
Has anyone else experienced this?

 

[Engineer54]

Hi Guys any of the older generation had this problem with their grading.
I'm a time served Approved, or thought I was.
In the early 1980's I got my approved card from the SJIB.
During the last 23years I've worked in the Security Alarm industry.
I was made redundant dec2011, and am chasing the spark trade,
even for a sparks mate jobs to get me back in (I know things have changed).

:furious3:My problem is the SJIB & the JIB have no record of me ever being a spark.

Although I have the 15th & 16th IEE regs.
I'm about to sit my 17th (Full 3 day course) but now have my doubts if I'll
even get an Standard Electricians card.
(in fairness the JIB stated they would have to honour my full apprenticeship)
Has anyone else experienced this?

WOW!! Sounds as if they are doing you a favour there!! lol!!

This is where the JIB falls down on it's arse, where the older generation of electricians have C&G numbers, that the kids running the JIB/SJIB these day's have never heard of, so they can't be worth anything. ...When in actual fact, there worth a dammed sight more than the thrown together numbers they have now!! In your day eleclio C&G where real qualifications, not like these micky mouse level 3 Pat Testing and 5 week C&G's you have now.... lol!!

 

[eleclio]

Yea, from what I hear ( don't know if its true or not). Anyone can now now call themselves a spark by just doing the 17th edition 3 day course.
I'm sitting it on Monday. So I'll find out who's got experience doing what, and who is flying by the seat of their pants. Like you say most get one qualification and think they rule the world.
I think the problem is the electrical industry.. Its now broken down into too many fields, and still give people the status of "Electrician"
The IEE Regs body cover too large of a field nowadays. I know its extra money for them. But!.........
There should be another Regulations body for subservant rolls and not embarass you real timeserved electricians.

 

[Spazz]

eleclio

1st thing - welcome to the site

2nd thing - if you live in wales or worked in Wales in the job you where made redundant DONT start any work! - get down your careers wales office and ask about ReACT! They will give you a grant to undertake training - not sure how much but it was £2,500 but I know it has decreased.

Get some training under your belt. If you can find a decent training company, you may be able to persuade them to do a course for you which also includes the supply of the equipment - if you cant let me know as I am still in that trade, and I will be able to sort something out for you as long as your from West Wales Area.

If your not from Wales - then sorry and good luck


In regards to you comment

There should be another Regulations body for subservant rolls and not embarass you real timeserved electricians.

The government body who govens Electricians is NAPIT, NICEIC, BSI, Elecsa.

All sparks must be either registered with them (costing from £550 to £1,500.00 inc VAT) or have their work signed off by Building Control, which costs upto £350 per job you want signed off.

Yes anyone can call themselves a sparky and yes anyone can do any electrical work, BUT not everyone can sign off their own work!

To get onto one of the schemes above you have to know what your doing in the first place and be doing it safety or you wont get onto one of these schemes!

 

[Des 56]

eleclio

1st thing - welcome to the site

2nd thing - if you live in wales or worked in Wales in the job you where made redundant DONT start any work! - get down your careers wales office and ask about ReACT! They will give you a grant to undertake training - not sure how much but it was £2,500 but I know it has decreased.

Get some training under your belt. If you can find a decent training company, you may be able to persuade them to do a course for you which also includes the supply of the equipment - if you cant let me know as I am still in that trade, and I will be able to sort something out for you as long as your from West Wales Area.

If your not from Wales - then sorry and good luck


In regards to you comment


The government body who govens Electricians is NAPIT, NICEIC, BSI, Elecsa.

All sparks must be either registered with them (costing from £550 to £1,500.00 inc VAT) or have their work signed off by Building Control, which costs upto £350 per job you want signed off.

Yes anyone can call themselves a sparky and yes anyone can do any electrical work, BUT not everyone can sign off their own work!

To get onto one of the schemes above you have to know what your doing in the first place and be doing it safety or you wont get onto one of these schemes!

Some good information you gave him there nicholas,but the underlined part above would have qualified for trevs joke of the day thread

 

[ruston]

There is a thread going on the IET site regarding this very problem. You may be entitled to be industry assessed and have grandfather rights . If I can find the thread I will post the link if the mods do'nt mind.

 

[Engineer54]

eleclio

1st thing - welcome to the site

2nd thing - if you live in wales or worked in Wales in the job you where made redundant DONT start any work! - get down your careers wales office and ask about ReACT! They will give you a grant to undertake training - not sure how much but it was £2,500 but I know it has decreased.

Get some training under your belt. If you can find a decent training company, you may be able to persuade them to do a course for you which also includes the supply of the equipment - if you cant let me know as I am still in that trade, and I will be able to sort something out for you as long as your from West Wales Area.

If your not from Wales - then sorry and good luck


In regards to you comment


The government body who govens Electricians is NAPIT, NICEIC, BSI, Elecsa.

All sparks must be either registered with them (costing from £550 to £1,500.00 inc VAT) or have their work signed off by Building Control, which costs upto £350 per job you want signed off.

Yes anyone can call themselves a sparky and yes anyone can do any electrical work, BUT not everyone can sign off their own work!

To get onto one of the schemes above you have to know what your doing in the first place and be doing it safety or you wont get onto one of these schemes!

Since when have any of the Scam providers been a Government body then?? They are Private profit making companies....

Are you being serious with that last paragraph?? Tell me how the hell can a Electrical Trainee wonder straight out of his course ''KNOW WHAT HE'S DOING''?? You have just got to be living in your own little dream world. I suggest you go through some of the many threads on this forum, and read them!! Read the questions they ask, read the umpteen stories of the so called competent scheme provider registered electricians nightmare installations.
Ever met anyone that has failed an assessment have you?? lol!!

Scheme Providers are just another parasitic body that are Only interested in making money off the backs of working electricians, nothing more, nothing less!!!

But if you can personally help out our older and therefore senior electrician here, Good on YOU.
But please don't take the members here as complete fools, because they most certainly are NOT!!

 

[Spazz]

I think I touched a sore point there!

like you said so called competent.


These competent scheme providers are ment to be doing this at the end of the day to make this very dangerous weapon as safe as it can be!

I d agree that they are to interested in making money - I have seen that already!

The bigger problem are these prats!!! who are not registered and not going through LABC to do these jobs, and those of them who are issuing fake certificates - bring in 1 company (not the several they have now) which is run by government which has a national register of all electricians and the work they have carried out - on par of the MOT system which is in force now.

Then have it where people can complain about shabby workmanship and fake certificates to this one body - but think Im in my dream world because that will never happen now will it!


I know they are not government bodies, they are however approved bodies - simple mistype

 

[ruston]

I've got the link, am I allowed to post it?


I've just sent you a PM with the link . good luck.

 

[Engineer54]

I think I touched a sore point there!

like you said so called competent.


These competent scheme providers are ment to be doing this at the end of the day to make this very dangerous weapon as safe as it can be!

I d agree that they are to interested in making money - I have seen that already!

The bigger problem are these prats!!! who are not registered and not going through LABC to do these jobs, and those of them who are issuing fake certificates - bring in 1 company (not the several they have now) which is run by government which has a national register of all electricians and the work they have carried out - on par of the MOT system which is in force now.

Then have it where people can complain about shabby workmanship and fake certificates to this one body - but think Im in my dream world because that will never happen now will it!


I know they are not government bodies, they are however approved bodies - simple mistype

Probably not, ...But it is the by far the most sensible way to go!!

All these scheme providers do is allow incompetence into the profession, for a big fee. At the same time, denying qualified experienced electricians that are employed, from earning any extra money, because they are not registered with them.

 

[ipf]

Probably not, ...But it is the by far the most sensible way to go!!

All these scheme providers do is allow incompetence into the profession, for a big fee. At the same time, denying qualified experienced electricians that are employed, from earning any extra money, because they are not registered with them.

Good points and in general agreement re the Electrical Trainee's E54, but there seem to be more and more unqualified and inexperienced electricians doing 'foreigners', without the slightest regard for standards or regs. Ignorance is bliss, not only for customers who get a job done as cheap as possible, but also for those carrying out the work.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Yea, from what I hear ( don't know if its true or not). Anyone can now now call themselves a spark by just doing the 17th edition 3 day course.
I'm sitting it on Monday. So I'll find out who's got experience doing what, and who is flying by the seat of their pants. Like you say most get one qualification and think they rule the world.
I think the problem is the electrical industry.. Its now broken down into too many fields, and still give people the status of "Electrician"
The IEE Regs body cover too large of a field nowadays. I know its extra money for them. But!.........
There should be another Regulations body for subservant rolls and not embarass you real timeserved electricians.

to the first sentence of this......no...can you chuff!!!...although some may argue this.......come on,...step forward,....dont be shy ...lol....

 

[Engineer54]

Good points and in general agreement re the Electrical Trainee's E54, but there seem to be more and more unqualified and inexperienced electricians doing 'foreigners', without the slightest regard for standards or regs. Ignorance is bliss, not only for customers who get a job done as cheap as possible, but also for those carrying out the work.

There has always been that element in our building industry as well as in others trades.
Most working electricians that used to earn a bit on the side, did sound jobs. Most of the jobs they did were minor affairs, as they were full time working... It has always been a perk, and a way to earn a little extra cash when needed....

 

[Guest111]

I agree wholeheartedly with the comment about training groups a mate of mine went on a pat testing course and failed as did a guy who was doing the job for years,my mate had to pay half the fee again to resit exam and passed it,didnt stop him ringing me for advice all the time though.on a similar note some years ago I had to do a refresher on the nrswa course, we had to have it as a supervisor as some of our work was on the roads,anyway there were a couple of lads there who were totally unsafe near traffic and yet they passed,when I commented on this the instructor hadn,t a lot to say,suppose it was a case of him getting his money and the company getting the right ticket for their staff,which unfortunately some companies dont seem to care if the training is right as long as they have the paperwork.

 

[Spazz]

I fully agree with phild

when I was delivering First Aid and Health and Safety I would regularly have companies coming to me asking me to just certificate their staff because they dont have time to do the whole course and they know everything anyway! - my reply is if they are that good then why are half of them failing a basic level 2 food safety.

Same Situation all the way through

 

[UNG]

I think I touched a sore point there!

like you said so called competent.


These competent scheme providers are ment to be doing this at the end of the day to make this very dangerous weapon as safe as it can be!

I d agree that they are to interested in making money - I have seen that already!

The bigger problem are these prats!!! who are not registered and not going through LABC to do these jobs, and those of them who are issuing fake certificates - bring in 1 company (not the several they have now) which is run by government which has a national register of all electricians and the work they have carried out - on par of the MOT system which is in force now.

Then have it where people can complain about shabby workmanship and fake certificates to this one body - but think Im in my dream world because that will never happen now will it!


I know they are not government bodies, they are however approved bodies - simple mistype

I think you are digging an even bigger hole for yourself with your comments.

The approved government scams and LABC crap is stopping well qualified and experienced (to use your insulting wording) prats doing electrical work on their own property and for relatives and friends while the Electrical Trainee shell out a lot of money join a scam and then ask a million and one questions on this forum on how to do the work with little or no proper qualification and experience.

Many years ago you had to trade for 3 years before the NICEIC would consider you as an approved contractor now with all these schemes it's reduced to nothing. There are some who belong to these domestic Part P schemes that believe that being Part P has elevated themselves to being better qualified than the sparks in the industrial and commercial sectors, what a joke.

 

[Guest111]

Hi UNG this one is realy getting heated isn,t it?you sound a bit of an old hand like myself,do you think we are finding it more annoying because of our age,you know back in the day when things were done properly training wise,were as now it seems anybody can class themselves as a sparks after 5 minutes training so to speak?I had my mates son with me as he couldn,t get a placement and although I couldn,t take him to work with me all the time,his tutor said he was learning more with me than the others on full time placement in his words he said "I knew he was knocking about with an old hand as the stuff he was learning they dont teach anymore" anyway he passed all his exams and went on to get a full time job so it was nice to know that despite being an old git I still have my uses. All the best to you my friend we may be old school but there are times they,d struggle without us

 

[Engineer54]

I think I touched a sore point there!




I d agree that they are to interested in making money - I have seen that already!

The bigger problem are these prats!!! who are not registered and not going through LABC to do these jobs, and those of them who are issuing fake certificates - bring in 1 company (not the several they have now) which is run by government which has a national register of all electricians and the work they have carried out - on par of the MOT system which is in force now.

Then have it where people can complain about shabby workmanship and fake certificates to this one body - but think Im in my dream world because that will never happen now will it!

You don't want any of the scheme provider companies involved, having a National Register of Qualified Electricians, would effectively kick all of them into touch, as any electrician that held a Registered card, would be deemed competent, ...no further need for these providers!!

Yes i agree, the Government body that administer this kind of set-up should also be given the teeth to take action against any electrician or company that doesn't conform to the rules. But then they should also be setting standards high enough where Electrical Trainee can't just go from office work to 5 or 6 weeks later being deemed a qualified electrician. ...ie where they will also need to gain recognised experience of a minimal duration, and even then be classified as a probationary competent electrician.

None of this should be costing the working electricians an arm and a leg either, like these greedy providers are. A self financing National body yes, profit making No!!!
Yes lot's to sort out, but something to work towards....

 

[ruston]

Phil d , your post reminds me of the 2391 course I was on . The vast majority had no understanding of what they were trying to achieve and had little or no knowledge when it came to the practical.
Most of the older Sparks spent their time coaching them and explaining things to them in the workshop before the practical assessment came up.

Out of the 24 that started the course only 17 completed it and only 7 passed. All applicants satisfied the colleges entry requirements.

 

[UNG]

Hi UNG this one is realy getting heated isn,t it?

I think it is understandable when a minority of high and mighty Part P crew start using terms like PRATS

you sound a bit of an old hand like myself,do you think we are finding it more annoying because of our age,you know back in the day when things were done properly training wise,were as now it seems anybody can class themselves as a sparks after 5 minutes training so to speak?

I'm rapidly reaching grumpy old man status at least the old skill centre sparks qualified with a bit more about them, this niche electrical training that appears to be the norm these days is not producing good all round electricians who can tackle any electrical job across all business sectors and if forums like this ceased to exist god help them. NVQ's were the start of the decline IMO with the older guys being told their qualifications meant nothing without an NVQ 3

I had my mates son with me as he couldn,t get a placement and although I couldn,t take him to work with me all the time,his tutor said he was learning more with me than the others on full time placement in his words he said "I knew he was knocking about with an old hand as the stuff he was learning they dont teach anymore" anyway he passed all his exams and went on to get a full time job so it was nice to know that despite being an old git I still have my uses. All the best to you my friend we may be old school but there are times they,d struggle without us

I do wonder where this industry will be in 10 - 20 years time the way things are going