Discuss Connection behind bathroom mirror? in the Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

B1gSte

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West Yorkshire
Hi everyone. Could someone please explain how an LED bathroom mirror with shaver socket should be connected to the mains?
My interpretation of the regs is that a fused spur must be outside the zones.
However, can the flex be connected in the void behind the mirror and by what means?
I am not making the connection myself. This is part of an extension build (en suite) and I’m just trying to make sure that everything is in the wall ready before the boards go over the studwork.
Any advice appreciated. Thanks.
 

telectrix

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if it comes from the lighting circuit, no FCU required. cable direct from lighting in attic to connect to mirror flex or terminals.
 
OP
B1gSte

B1gSte

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West Yorkshire
Thanks for your quick replies. So to verify. No FCU required.

Nebu1a, so to verify. Is the connection plate permitted behind the mirror above the basin?

Edit: Does cable need to be run in conduit?

Thanks
 
OP
B1gSte

B1gSte

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Location
West Yorkshire
Thanks Wilko there is a B6 switch for both the upstairs and downstairs lighting circuits at the CU. Is that what you refer to?
 

Nebu1a

Regular EF Member
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Hampshire
How close is the mirror to the shower or bath?

Also as the flex outlet plate is behind the mirror, which I am assuming needs tools to remove, it could be argued that the flex outlet plate is out of zones anyway.

It is standard practice to fit illuminated mirrors on the lighting circuit. Do the MIs state it needs to be on a fused spur?
 

Andy78

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I don't get why the customer needs to check for wiring provisions and RCD protection.
When I do a bathroom fit the customer tells me they are having a mirror and I do all that myself.
 
OP
B1gSte

B1gSte

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West Yorkshire
The existing CU has only a 63A 30mA RCCB on the kitchen and house ring mains.
The other side of the CU has a load of miniature circuit breaker type switches that stats NOT protected by RCCB.

However, I already have an electrician on standby to replace the whole CU as the meter box has been relocated to outside. So the present set up is temporary.

So on the assumption that he will replace to present standards, I just need to know what connection to use behind the mirror.

In answer to question above, the mirror can be lifted off the bracket without tools.
The basin unit with mirror above is next to the shower screen. Shower is 800 x 1200. Centre of sink is 400mm from shower screen.
 
OP
B1gSte

B1gSte

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Location
West Yorkshire
Andy78. The boards are going up shortly I just need to make sure I have made provision for the electrician when I get him round to do all the rest of the extension including kitchen and new CU. Thanks.
 
Last edited:

Rpa07

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I use click flow connectors for lighted mirrors now so that they can be connected easily when balanced on you knee standing on the ladder!
 
D

Deleted member 26818

400mm puts the mirror within zone 2.
You will need to ensure the mirror is suitable to be used within zone 2.
 
OP
B1gSte

B1gSte

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Location
West Yorkshire
What about if I put a conduit in the wall with a piece of string through from above so that the electrician can pull a cable (or the long flex of the mirror) through it later?
 

Nebu1a

Regular EF Member
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99
Location
Hampshire
Fit noggin, 25mm metal back box, conduit and draw wire and leave for your electrician to finish. Check the mirror is suitable for Zone 2.
 
OP
B1gSte

B1gSte

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Location
West Yorkshire
Thanks Nebu1a that’ll do for me!
The mirror is one of those Hudson Reed LED things with a swipe sensor switch for the lights, a shave socket and a demister pad. It is shown above a sink in all the marketing ads. I know this doesn’t necessarily mean anything. It says IP44 on the back, which i have read (on here I think IIRC) is suitable for zone 2.

Thanks again.
 

Midwest

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11,676
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Oxfordshire
I'd just leave the cable hanging (not energised of course) out of the wall. Then when you, sorry your electrician comes to test - inspect - connect wall cabinet/mirror, it'll go straight inside the fitting.

However, if its one of those luminaires that comes with a pre-installed flex, which is difficult to remove, I'd go with one of those aforementioned alternatives.
 
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Rpa07

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Most modern hangable mirrors now have open backs to them enabling the click flow or greenbrook connector to be your test point but still enable quick connection.
I'd just leave the cable hanging (not energised of course) out of the wall. Then when you, sorry your electrician comes to test - inspect - connect wall cabinet/mirror, it'll go straight inside the fitting.

However, if its one of those luminaires that comes with a pre-installed flex, which is difficult to remove, I'd go with one of those aforementioned alternatives.
 

Midwest

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Most modern hangable mirrors now have open backs to them enabling the click flow or greenbrook connector to be your test point but still enable quick connection.
Not the ones I've installed. They seem to have been designed by the Devil Incarnate.
 
OP
B1gSte

B1gSte

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Location
West Yorkshire
Thanks all. Midwest, I realise not all those asking for advice will intend to use an electrician. I do consider myself competent to a degree but as pointed out earlier there are a lot more things to consider than just the connections. Plus I need the electrician’s certificate for the building inspector. So even if I knew everything about it (which I clearly don’t) I still couldn’t/wouldn’t do it myself. I’ve just been to Screwfix, as it happens and bought the conduit etc. Are these female adaptors ment to be solvent welded onto the conduit?
Thanks again.
 

DefyG

Regular EF Member
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241
Location
South East
Most modern hangable mirrors now have open backs to them enabling the click flow or greenbrook connector to be your test point but still enable quick connection.
Most of the ones I've seen/fitted, have had a solid back (effectively one big gear tray) with terminals to connect to.
The flat back would normally be screwed 'flat' to the wall so no room for a flex outlet plate behind it.

As per Midwest, the usual method is to leave the cable hanging out of the wall for direct connection to the unit.
 

Rpa07

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It may have a bracket that affixes to the wall that you hook the mirror over. OP will tell us.
Recently I’ve fitted client supplied ones that had to be measured perfectly and drilled and plugged perfectly as when you paired the mirror to the screws they sat in holes - rediculous way of fixing but when you get it right and it’s tight to the wall and level, you don’t touch it again!
 
OP
B1gSte

B1gSte

Active EF Member
Messages
34
Location
West Yorkshire
There is a bracket which screws to the wall. The inner part of the frame drops over the bracket along the top. Similar to those brackets for kitchen units but bigger. There doesn’t seem to be any sort of locking mechanism but I’ve tried it out and it sits happily under its own weight.

Edit. Rpa07 is exactly right.
 

Bellendian

Regular EF Member
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224
Location
Gatwick
Last few of these I've done have come with a pre installed flex, and very little space behind the mirror for a connection. I had been using the wago box lite boxes to make the connection behind the mirror, but this often requires chiselling a pocket out of the wall for the wagobox so the mirror sits flat. On future jobs I'm going down the route of using a 25mm back box and flex outlet plate with a bottom entry. Easier to do the chiselling at 1st fix!
 

Tim Court

EF Member
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5
Location
Farnham
I have an IP44 rated mirror with demister, shaver socket and led perimeter light. Led and demister controlled by proximity sensor not by light switch. Rather than connect to the lighting circuit the power was spurred off the ring via a double pole switch (in the loft) with a drop to the mirror. Cable pokes through the tiled wall and silicone sealed. Then goes into a Schneider IP44 round junction box fixed to the wall. Flex to mirror connected via wago’s inside. The mirror has a 50mm gap behind so jb can be accommodated.
We were concerned that a standard back box with flex outlet, recessed into the wall, would not quite manage IP44 with all the steam about even though it could have been (just about) mounted outside Zone 2 if we had known the exact fixing height before first fix. And fiddly 4 keyhole fixings for mirror. Should sparks have fitted a switched fused spur in the loft rather than a double pole switch for isolation?
 

Midwest

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Oxfordshire
If you’ve spurred off the ring final circuit, you’ll need to replace the DP switch, with a Fused Connection Unit, with switch if you like. Use a 5A fuse. What does the manufacturers instructions say?

Without reading back, does your RFC have RCD protection?

Edit; I see your not the OP.
 
Last edited:

Tim Court

EF Member
Messages
5
Location
Farnham
Thanks Midwest... yes, circuits have rcd protection. I will also double check the rating plate on the mirror as the installation instructions are silent!
 

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