Discuss Don’t get taken for a ride by electrical ‘Rogue Trainers’ urges industry body in the Electrical News - Electricians News area at ElectriciansForums.net

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Want to become a qualified electrician? Look carefully at the training courses on offer to avoid wasting time and money, is the advice in a new campaign from electrical industry body The Electrotechnical Skills Partnership (TESP).

With thousands of searches each year on terms such as ‘electrical courses’ and ‘how to become an electrician’, many people are at risk of taking the wrong training path if they’re not aware of the correct routes they should follow.

Alongside the many training providers who are doing the right thing and offering industry-recognised qualifications, there are unfortunately some training providers – dubbed by TESP as ‘Rogue Trainers’ – who don’t deliver on their promises, presenting a range of courses which look impressive to the untrained eye, but on proper inspection don’t lead to qualified status.

Click to view video

In a short, animated video from TESP, an unsuspecting victim is drawn into a house of horrors by false claims which turn out not to be all they seem.

The advice to those wanting to become an electrician is look carefully at what’s on offer and be aware of red flags like hard sells, payment plans, and qualification packages which aren’t recognised by industry.

Full advice is available at www.roguetrainers.co.uk with top tips for choosing a training provider, along with warning signs to look out for when researching a provider’s claims. Visitors are signposted to TESP’s industry approved Training Routes to read more on the right paths to follow to become qualified.

“There are still too many reports of people spending thousands of pounds with companies who wilfully misrepresent where their training leads,” said Ruth Devine, TESP Chair and Managing Director of SJD Electrical. “Some providers use high-pressure sales techniques to trap learners with a large financial commitment, but devious contract terms mean there’s no realistic prospect of achieving the qualification.”

“When so many training providers jump through hoops to do things properly and engage responsibly with industry and employers, it’s important that potential learners are aware of the pitfalls.

“We hope to raise awareness of this campaign to the general public and help those who may fall foul of rogue trainers when looking to become an electrician.”

Watch the video and find out more about the campaign.

Click to view video
 

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Lister1987

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Persons to be competent to prevent danger and injury (EAWR)

16. No person shall be engaged in any work activity where technical knowledge or experience is necessary to prevent danger or, where appropriate, injury, unless he possesses such knowledge or experience, or is under such degree of supervision as may be appropriate having regard to the nature of the work.
So far as I know this is the only statutory requirement in doing electrical work. While an industrial installation worker and domestic worker my have the same qualifications, there is no way either could do the others work. Regs talk of "skilled persons" another layer of definition.
And here is the first problem; that language used is not consistent across mediums. I get EAWR has to by its nature use definitive terms but it would help if the non-statutory media we utilise used the same language to avoid ambiguity; A classic example often given is EAWRs use of SHALL and MUST for absolute regulation, no use of unambiguous terms like MAY etc.
So statutorily: Technical knowledge, from qualifications? Experience; on the job? But the whole point of being competent, the aim, is to PREVENT DANGER AND INJURY. So work carried out must be done to regs to obviate injury and danger. Which in some ways is common sense. I think it is easily forgotten that an electricians work is not that difficult.
From a qualification viewpoint it is really just basic science nothing rocket science about it.
From a hands on tools stand point you're probably right but it's the understanding of the scientific fundamentals and how to work safely with them.

The techniques employed by a skilled experienced person are not that difficult once learnt. I do think sometimes some get a bit up themselves in presenting being an electrician as an insoluble maze of technical difficulty whereas it is very mundane and simple. Present company excepted of course.
True but to those that have no clue, as with any skill, it can be like witchcraft is being performed in front of you.

Any idiot can put wires in holes and tighten screws but it takes time, knowledge, retention to select the right wire, the right tools and all the other bits that we learn over time to truly do the job problem. Anyone can lash it in, flick a switch and see light turns on but it takes thr right kind of person to do it safely etc.

134.2.1 During erection and on completion of an installation or an addition or alteration to an installation,and before it is put into service, appropriate inspection and testing shall be carried out by skilled persons competent to verify that the requirements of this Standard have been met.

Under definitions;
Skilled person (electrically). Person who possesses, as appropriate to the nature of the electrical work to be undertaken, adequate education, training and practical skills, and who is able to perceive risks and avoid hazards which electricity can create

Just to further define what an electrician should be by statute and regs. HSE provide further info on competent as defined in EAWR. But this is all rather common sense. Competent is mentioned a number of times especially around I&T having to be competent to do I&T.
Competency is mentioned in most H&S legislation, as opposed to qualifications, presumably because the latter is a simply metric of the former.

Biggest issue in the whole thing is that (in terms of terminology) we're not all singing off the same hymnsheet; Legislators will talk of competence (because they have no financial reason to talk about qualifications).

Trainers and other organisations (set to benefit from cash changing hands - money for services that is, not bribes, although....) will talk of qualifications because it's how they make thier money,

Old timers will talk of apprenticeships being the dogs danglies because it is how they cut thier teeth and were likely no alternative routes available.

Course students will complain (I count myself in that) that companies won't give them thr time of day or accept anything other than apprenticeship due to the lack of financial reason of thrm to take non-apprentices that have "front-loaded' the knowledge so they could understand what they were doing before doing it.

It needs a collective and industry-wide shake up but that will likely not happen and so we'll still hear that Apprenticeships aren't what thry once we're, that the electrical industry needs an overhaul, that anyone that came into the industry via any route other than apprenticeship is seen as inferior or worse; isn't a spark.

I guess those that truly want it (regardless of route), will put thr work in and go and get it. I've been lucky enough to get a job with a company that specifically created roles aimed at those working at level 3 (take it to mean NVQ3 as opposed to Level 3 (2365 / 8202-30) ) and although I didn't have that NVQ3, I was able to convince them that it wasn't having that NVQ3 that made me a good choice but my study ethic, the being the 'Class of Covid', having to put in MORE work to ensure that the knowledge stuck and being able to demonstrate that in interview.

It's ---- but our own experiences are what we make of it. Life is a ---- sandwich, it's just more enjoyable if you have the palate of a dung-beetle ?
 

Electrics

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Ok now thats fighting talk! I think you're statements below are open to debate.




I think you will find in the link a tad of standards which govern entry and competence within the electrical trades.
Nope, they are standards required to join optional third party certification schemes. Not the same thing.
However are you really saying there are no imcompetent electricians in europe?
No?
I think a lot of people on here are highly skilled persons and competent and would have much to contribute here and abroad. Some of your statements suggest this may not be so by implication. I object to that. While I take some of what you say on board as having merit there are parts that skate close to insult which I have always been taught, is it kind, is it true, is it necessary, if not, do not say it. You might usefully reflect on that.
I'm sorry but pointing out factual information about qualifications isn't insulting. If you find it so you may usefully reflect on the fact that you may need to harden up a bit.
 

Vortigern

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Facts about qualifications? You haven't pointed out any. I will give you an example of what pointing out a fact about qualifications is. Please see attached qualification requirements to join a scheme. These are the facts regards qualifications which you seem to be confused about in that you seem to think there is no standard of required qualifications/experience. Those "optional requirements that are not qualifications,
Nope, they are standards required to join optional third party certification schemes. Not the same thing.
Are a list of qualifications and competencies required to join the trade which you are insisting don't exist. They do. For a person in the uk if they want to know how to become an electrician they would refer to these requirements in order to map out how they can enter the trade. You paint a picture of chaos and indecipherable standards, it simply is not the case the standars are right before you and you are saying they do not exist. For anyone reading this thread who gets the feeling that there is no way to work out how to qualify for entry into the trade, read the attached pdf and you WILL be able to see what is required. Don't listen to unfounded statements that there are no standards. I defy anyone to read the pdf and show me how there are no standards. Next I will go into JIB standard entry requirements and gold card entry qualifications. In order to demonstrate there are very specific requirements for entry into work in the UK as an electrician for those who do not understand the structure of the UK requiements.
 

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Petej999

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Facts about qualifications? You haven't pointed out any. I will give you an example of what pointing out a fact about qualifications is. Please see attached qualification requirements to join a scheme. These are the facts regards qualifications which you seem to be confused about in that you seem to think there is no standard of required qualifications/experience. Those "optional requirements that are not qualifications,

Are a list of qualifications and competencies required to join the trade which you are insisting don't exist. They do. For a person in the uk if they want to know how to become an electrician they would refer to these requirements in order to map out how they can enter the trade. You paint a picture of chaos and indecipherable standards, it simply is not the case the standars are right before you and you are saying they do not exist. For anyone reading this thread who gets the feeling that there is no way to work out how to qualify for entry into the trade, read the attached pdf and you WILL be able to see what is required. Don't listen to unfounded statements that there are no standards. I defy anyone to read the pdf and show me how there are no standards. Next I will go into JIB standard entry requirements and gold card entry qualifications. In order to demonstrate there are very specific requirements for entry into work in the UK as an electrician for those who do not understand the structure of the UK requiements.
Being a CPS member does NOT guarantee Competence.
 

Pretty Mouth

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Facts about qualifications? You haven't pointed out any. I will give you an example of what pointing out a fact about qualifications is. Please see attached qualification requirements to join a scheme. These are the facts regards qualifications which you seem to be confused about in that you seem to think there is no standard of required qualifications/experience. Those "optional requirements that are not qualifications,

Are a list of qualifications and competencies required to join the trade which you are insisting don't exist. They do. For a person in the uk if they want to know how to become an electrician they would refer to these requirements in order to map out how they can enter the trade. You paint a picture of chaos and indecipherable standards, it simply is not the case the standars are right before you and you are saying they do not exist. For anyone reading this thread who gets the feeling that there is no way to work out how to qualify for entry into the trade, read the attached pdf and you WILL be able to see what is required. Don't listen to unfounded statements that there are no standards. I defy anyone to read the pdf and show me how there are no standards. Next I will go into JIB standard entry requirements and gold card entry qualifications. In order to demonstrate there are very specific requirements for entry into work in the UK as an electrician for those who do not understand the structure of the UK requiements.
The EAS you linked to lists requirements to join an optional scheme, so that you may self-notify any notifiable work you carry out in dwellings.

Not having the required qualifications (which I mostly don't), and not being on such a scheme (which I'm not) doesn't legally stop you from doing any electrcial work, including notifiables (which I do).
 

Dan

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Thanks to all for keeping this article thread professional and on-topic. :)

I hope this new partnership doesn't just recommend training routes that have paid them to be recommended. I fear that. But I'm sure it'll give the jitters to the dodgy ones who use salesmen to go around fleecing newbies.

I changed domains from .co.uk to .net partly because of a time a few years ago when one of them went to nominet and said our feedback on here about them was not genuine and they had paid for a nominet legal body to represent them in the case, so it risked losing our domain so I had to roll over and remove a thread or two.

We're now hosted in France, backups in Germany, server guy in France, domain is international. It's the most I can do short of living on the moon to protect our threads. I hear it's cold up there, but I would be 30% lighter so may be an option in the future.
 

Electrics

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Facts about qualifications? You haven't pointed out any.
I'm pointing out facts about being 'fully qualified'. There is no such thing.
I will give you an example of what pointing out a fact about qualifications is. Please see attached qualification requirements to join a scheme. These are the facts regards qualifications which you seem to be confused about in that you seem to think there is no standard of required qualifications/experience. Those "optional requirements that are not qualifications,
These schemes take on those who've done a 6 day course and you're using them as a benchmark? Lol.
Are a list of qualifications and competencies required to join the trade which you are insisting don't exist. They do. For a person in the uk if they want to know how to become an electrician they would refer to these requirements in order to map out how they can enter the trade. You paint a picture of chaos and indecipherable standards, it simply is not the case the standars are right before you and you are saying they do not exist. For anyone reading this thread who gets the feeling that there is no way to work out how to qualify for entry into the trade, read the attached pdf and you WILL be able to see what is required. Don't listen to unfounded statements that there are no standards. I defy anyone to read the pdf and show me how there are no standards. Next I will go into JIB standard entry requirements and gold card entry qualifications. In order to demonstrate there are very specific requirements for entry into work in the UK as an electrician for those who do not understand the structure of the UK requiements.
No actually you're conflating joining a scheme with being 'qualified'. They're not the same things at all and these schemes are NOT an authority although you obviously seem to think they are.

There is no such thing as 'fully qualified' here in the UK. It's not really an argument it's a fact. Until we get standards enshrined in LAW and not just what groups of private scheme providers say then these facts don't change.

Not sure what you're arguing against but it's certainly not what i've been saying in this thread so it seems you're doing what's called 'strawmanning'.
 

Mike Johnson

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I was a director of a professional association for a number of years, it was a constant battle with the other board members to try and get an understanding between quality and quantity of members, eventually I won out and wrote the entrance exam to our Fellowship and started the process to become Chartered, that entailed lots of hoops to jump through, but the standards required assure competence.
 
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Pretty Mouth

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True but you can bet your --- they won't be testing those on the books against that new benchmark for fairness, it'd lose them members and money so not a great benchmark but if they did look to do this I'd think better of them.
Having never been assessed, I'm far from an expert, but my understanding is that the entry requirements have changed, while the annual assessment has remained the same. Is that not the case?
 

Electrics

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That was true until very recently, but not since the 1st September 2021
Well yeah but the point is they're just an awarding body. Even if their entry requirement was stricter than strict it's irrelevant since you don't have to be a member to be a practising electrician. Only when scheme adherence is MANDATORY to practice the trade do said scheme's requirements become the benchmark for 'fully qualified'.
 

Dustydazzler

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Well yeah but the point is they're just an awarding body. Even if their entry requirement was stricter than strict it's irrelevant since you don't have to be a member to be a practising electrician. Only when scheme adherence is MANDATORY to practice the trade do said scheme's requirements become the benchmark for 'fully qualified'.
No to mention the scams only cover domestic in regards to building control

I could walk onto any site tomorrow and start work on a 415v 3 phase panel and there is no mandatory minimum qual required for me to do this work and certainly no scam required either
 

Vortigern

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Being a CPS member does NOT guarantee Competence.
Being a qualified brain surgeon does NOT guarantee Competence. Yeh so thats the case throughout the whole Kingdom. Being an MP, well need I say more. Being a qualified past the bar lawyer, again need I say more. And so on ad infinitium there is no professional area that does not have it's wronguns and crap workers. So the system is endemically all snafu? Yeh but there is emerging some kind of standard. And if a newcomer read the foregoing he could be forgiven for beleiving there is no way to become a qualifed electrician and there is! Read the above one and all. I give up with Camo he just does not want to believe what is in black and white. I could set up as a brain surgeon. The take away here is that there is a proscribed route to being a spark it is not all confusion and chaos.
 
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Electrics

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Being a qualified brain surgeon does NOT guarantee Competence. Yeh so thats the case throughout the whole Kingdom. Being an MP, well need I say more. Being a qualified past the bar lawyer, again need I say more. And so on ad infinitium there is no professional area that does not have it's wronguns and crap workers. So the system is endemically all snafu? Yeh but there is emerging some kind of standard. And if a newcomer read the foregoing he could be forgiven for beleiving there is no way to become a qualifed electrician and there is! Read the above one and all. I give up with Camo he just does not want to beleive what is in black and white. I could set up as a brain surgeon. The take away here is that there is a proscribed route to being a spark it is not all confusion and chaos.
Black and white?

There is a multitude of qualifications, all of which you can either possess or not possess in any combination, and you don't need any of them to legally carry out work of any kind. You only actually 'need' a JIB gold card because employers ask for it, it's not a legal requirement at all and some sites will let people on without them. Competent persons schemes have no weight in law, they're not legal entities, possess no legislative power or otherwise and basically cropped up to position themselves as 'standard' with zero backing from law or statute of any kind meaning they can be simply ignored. They are irrelevant because they're given no power or authority by the actual authorities.

There is no such thing as 'fully qualified' in this country. If you think there is you're simply wrong and that's the end of it. Until there is a qualification which allows only those who possess it to carry out electrical work unsupervised then there is no such thing. That's all there is to it.

As for your brain surgeon comment, it's laughable for several reasons that are obvious to everyone except apparently you. For one yes it does guarantee competence because you have to prove competence to the General Medical Council to become one, which you cannot do without very specific degrees and training. For two no you couldn't just 'set up' as one, don't be ridiculous.
 
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Vortigern

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Sorry but forgot to mention the OP. Yes I think it is a great thing you are doing highlighting unscrupulous purveyors of electrical courses and exposing them??? But someone needs to do that and maybe we got a bit off topic and you probably feel you had your fingers bitten off in trying to share what is a noble effort. This forum has so many stories of people who have been ripped off and disappointed on these courses preying on genuinely interested and motivated people. I personally wholly endorse what you are doing.
 
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All well and good when installations go right, it's when they go wrong and someone gets hurt or worst that the legal side will utilise the 'recommended or industry standards' to measure you by.
Whatever form they take.
 
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"Importantly, the routes clearly stress that becoming a fully qualified electrician can only be achieved with valid on-site work experience, as opposed to courses that offer no ‘real world’ practical skills."

There is no standard, body, qualification or overseeing authority that defines 'fully qualified'. In short, there's no such thing.
I thought I was a member her but it’s been so long that I could not find any trace...

I rejoined/joined because of this post.

I saw talk of this on Twitter, I have to say I 100% agree with you.

‘Companies’ like these guys set up, they endorse their mates in the JIB, ECA, NIC, et-al That bunch of leaches then endorse them back and the incestuous circle starts again.

Boils my blood! Can you tell.

Qualified electrician - meaningless let alone ‘Fully’ qualified. No one is ever fully qualified in this field!

Electrical ‘training’ - meaningless

Approved electrician? Really? Approved be a private company with no Legal standing.

Absolute joke.

This lot will be no differant than all that come before them. Wait for the call for the paper in your wallet to be ‘approved’ by another private company.
 

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