Non Compliance?

[SolarCity]

I don't think that would be fair. I know of two members that have surprised me with their knowledge yet have only just received accreditation. I know of their standard of work from their previous contracts and they are, frankly, untouchable. Don't judge a firm by how long they have been MCS. Judge them by the standard of their work. This should be the first and foremost concern of a customer and any installer should be able to provide you with some example of their work.

 

[Worcester]

Ask to see for photo's of their actual work and also call their customers for references, almost all of our work (and we are incredibly busy) comes form referrals.

One the other hand, the ongoing saga of a newly accredited (last week) incompetent, (not deliberately cowboy, just plain incompetent) installer,

Took these photo's of a 'corrected' slate install -(owner asked me to check it over) it is being redone again next week - their electrics are OK, on the roof though they are using a mix of themselves (sparks) and roofers with no Solar PV Installation training;

The screws on EVERY bracket were loose, because the bracket used was installed in the wrong way (again...) I could see from the ground that something wasn't correct.



The most worrying thing... they have been working for another installer as a sub-contractor for the last 3 months..

So, this customer will get a good job done here, however there must be a number of installations that they have done that are clearly going to cause problems, - who to report them to that actually has any teeth / jurisdiction to make them do anything?

 

[The Launderer]

Again the problems could be down to the poor quality courses.

We just completed our first install last week for our MCS accreditation this Wednesday. The job was done on my own house and I am very pleased with it. The roof has rosemary tiles and no battens and if it wasnt for (1) the time I spent on this forum going through all the threads, (2) spending hours speaking to suppliers of roof brackets before actually talking to someone who seemed to know what they were talking about and (3) the help I received from forum members to questions I asked, I dread to think what kind of mess my roof would be in.

Because of the knowledge I had gained I was able to instruct the roofers on what was required. We are determined that every job we complete will be of the highest standard and that will only be achieved by ensuring that we carry out the work properly. But its a chicken and egg situation - you can't gain the experience without doing the job.

If someone on this forum was to create an electronic book detailing step by step instructions with photographs of the work required on the different roof types and the brackets required they could easily sell it for £50.00 a pop (I would certainly buy it). They could make themselves a few bob and help to bring standards up at the same time.

 

[grandfortune]

Ask to see for photo's of their actual work and also call their customers for references, almost all of our work (and we are incredibly busy) comes form referrals.

One the other hand, the ongoing saga of a newly accredited (last week) incompetent, (not deliberately cowboy, just plain incompetent) installer,

Took these photo's of a 'corrected' slate install -(owner asked me to check it over) it is being redone again next week - their electrics are OK, on the roof though they are using a mix of themselves (sparks) and roofers with no Solar PV Installation training;

The screws on EVERY bracket were loose, because the bracket used was installed in the wrong way (again...) I could see from the ground that something wasn't correct.

View attachment 8081View attachment 8082View attachment 8083View attachment 8084

The most worrying thing... they have been working for another installer as a sub-contractor for the last 3 months..

So, this customer will get a good job done here, however there must be a number of installations that they have done that are clearly going to cause problems, - who to report them to that actually has any teeth / jurisdiction to make them do anything?

thats terrible, i found one here, consumer unit to close to gas services?

 

[SolarCity]

Very clever, GF.

It's very bad form to try and pick tiny errors on other people's work - Especially the people that actually help you when people like you come on here asking questions.

 

[grandfortune]

very true, its the likes of you worcester and others thathave frankly got me this far, i have come to the conclusion that the course i attended wasn’t upto much but im trying my hardest, its such a struggle with running my electrical business and bringing up 3 kids. i just got a bit annoyed as to the bashing i got from asking what to you are simple questions but to me are so important, as i can see from most of the intelligent ones here your working for big(ish) company's and have the time and money to go on all the courses and conferences but the likes of little old me have to ask all sorts of questions, i was told not to worry about matching inverters so took it in. Its just i felt the linking of me and the pictures worcester put up were basically having a go at me "as a incompetant installer".

 

[ExtremePV]

Hi Cbw,
If your inverter is not G83 spec then send it back to your supplier!

The SB1700 does need the service kit + laptop, so its not as easy as the new HF / TL inverters.

While I agree that its the installers responsibility to check the system, you shouldn't have to program every SMA inverter to UK settings!
It really annoys me when inverters are supplied to UK installers with other country settings. The usual reason is that you can save a few £'s by buying from a non UK official distributor. But how much does it cost you in time to reprogram the inverter?
The real problem is that these comes with any old country settings, and it tends to only be noticed if there is a problem - tripping out due to high AC voltage.
I'm biased.. as I work for a UK distributor who supply factory set G83 inverters...but it really concerns me the number of inverters out there from grey imports with the wrong settings. Not only that, people have been sold SB2100TL's and SB1600TL's which ARE NOT UK certified.
Send it back and get a UK spec one

<end rant>

Ken

 

[cbw]

Thanks Ken, I have tried to return it to Denmans eco, they have again told me that it is my responsibility.

Thus I have bought lap top, downloaded software and blue tooth piggy back on order.

What will be interesting is that my MCS assessment is on the 12th October, not only am I being assessed, my assessor is also being assessed for MCS compliance.

Will be interesting as I have completed all tests ETC and obviously failed tis one and used it as an example of noncompliance etc.

The SB 1200 which is next to the 1700 was g83 so is working away happily.

All in all its quite a complicated one for my first sole peice of work.

 

[Graeme Harrold]

For al of the faults Ive read over the last few months, esp with SMA inverters, most have come down to NOT reading the installation manuals. Its akin to measure twice, cut once. Even if you only read it once to understand what you are installing, it then only takes 30 seconds to know if everything is set correctly.

No 3 day course can teach it all. I dont think any course can teach you roof penetration as there are far too many variables. A roofer has the skills on the roof, the electrician should concentrate on the electrical side. Unless the roof is straight forward slate and rafter then I get an expert in to do my brackets ( not to mention they are quicker).

 

[ExtremePV]

The answers always in the manual Graeme.
Its easy on the new HF/TL SMA inverters to set country settings, but on the older ones like the SB1700 in question here its not. Its factory set.
It comes down to companies selling product not fit for the UK market. i.e. not shipped with G83 settings. Simple.
If you bought a TV from Comet, got it home and found it didn't work as it was NTSC standard rather than PAL, you would be a bit hacked off with the shop. Its the same thing here. Denmans have sold something that isn't for the UK grid. Reading the manual isn't going to help, unless it as a free laptop + service cable hidden inside!

 

[High Tower]

I am sorry but this is going off at a tangent. My newly installed inverter restarts after 1 minuite of ac shutdown.

I have just bought new desktop and spent £10s of thousands getting set up and now my fking inverter needs a laptop and posh leeds to make it comply with UK regs.

Why the hell have I bought this kit from a reputable supplier when I could have bought it on ebay and saved a fortune????


Rather than just critisise me suggest the bloomin lap top and leeds required. I genuinely thought that SMA stuff was ready for the UK market.

I have all but bust my good electrical company setting this up and am still shocked at the mounting costs.

Thought MCS suppliers would supply uk ready kit!!!!!

Alright mate,

I gotta admit i am 100% with you, I am not a PV installer, and i have absolutely no attention of becoming one. i dont pretend to understand the abbreviations and technical standards given for this kind of installation.

However, If as a electrician, the wholesaler sold me a piece of electrical equipment not standardised or configured for this country, they would be getting it back! and if they diddnt want to take it back they would be getting it through their window, sharp end first!!.

I see we have the same holier than thou approach to your problem on here that we see elsewhere, now i can see that configuration and changing settings could well be part of a install, the same as a BMS or PLC would require some button prodding, however any BMS or PLC is to a BS and is configured for this country. so i feel that your problem is nonsence and is solely the responsibility of the supplier. if they want to sell continental equipment in this country because they have run out of stock of the uk stuff, then they can send their bloody engineer out to configure it for the uk.

Mad Mad Mad!!!