SuperlecDirect - ElectriciansForums.net Electrical Suppliers
This official sponsor may provide discounts for members

Discuss Some people!! in the Industrial Electrician Talk area at ElectriciansForums.net

G

greekislandlover

Welcome to ElectriciansForums.net - The American Electrical Advice Forum
Head straight to the main forums to chat by click here:  American Electrical Advice Forum

We are doing a rewire at the moment where the tenant is (to be blunt) a right pain. He has suddenly had to apply for retrospective planning permission for his DIY house extensions, and LABC want an electrical certificate for his porch supply. His friend who installed it (a professional electrician nonetheless) told him that as we are rewiring the place, we can issue him a certificate.

Well, it's an interesting arrangement! Plug top in the kitchen leads to two 500w floods on the back of the house, round the side taking in a couple more floods on the way and finally round the front to yet more floods and permanently mounted christmas lights. Then it goes into the porch with a bit of flex to an unswitched socket and several downlighters.

Oddly enough I've said "No way Jose", and that we will only certify our installation and that if I had my way I'd chop the lot down. He got offended at this - can't think why!
 
S

Shakey

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #2
We are doing a rewire at the moment where the tenant is (to be blunt) a right pain. He has suddenly had to apply for retrospective planning permission for his DIY house extensions, and LABC want an electrical certificate for his porch supply. His friend who installed it (a professional electrician nonetheless) told him that as we are rewiring the place, we can issue him a certificate.

Well, it's an interesting arrangement! Plug top in the kitchen leads to two 500w floods on the back of the house, round the side taking in a couple more floods on the way and finally round the front to yet more floods and permanently mounted christmas lights. Then it goes into the porch with a bit of flex to an unswitched socket and several downlighters.

Oddly enough I've said "No way Jose", and that we will only certify our installation and that if I had my way I'd chop the lot down. He got offended at this - can't think why!
but if its on a plug, it is not part of the fixed installation, surely?

it is essentially an extension lead, and so is not a controlled service, and should have nowt to do with building control or part P requirements

well thats the way I see it anyway:rolleyes:
 
R

rumrunner

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #3
but if its on a plug, it is not part of the fixed installation, surely?

it is essentially an extension lead, and so is not a controlled service, and should have nowt to do with building control or part P requirements

well thats the way I see it anyway:rolleyes:
Quite right Shakey ,its the installation that has to comform to labc standards not whats plugged into it :)
 
C

Carter

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #4
Well it's certainly not technicaly part of the fixed wiring but there is every likelihood that it will become a permanent feature of it and there is ample evidence of it by the fact that it's sitting there with a plug on the end just itching to go in the socket.
Table 53.2 (p117) specifically forbids the use of plug and socket combinations as a valid means of emergency switching and who wants to go anywhere near a smouldering plug much less grab hold of it? The requirements for emergency switching aren't much help as the mainswitch technicaly will suffice for that purpose but in a flap will he think of that as this meatball's kitchen is filling with smoke? His call.

What size fuse sits in the plug, (prob 13A) what size is the flexing to the floods? (prob 0.75mm?) current carrying capacity of that flex (6A) so there's just one thing to point up.

It just sucks all over. Sod what he thinks about it, since when was he the 'skilled person'? Honestly though, some people.:mad:
 
G

greekislandlover

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #5
Sorry - just typed a long reply, but lost it in reviewing it!!!! Short version:-

I bet it's a 13A fuse too. Cable from the plug top is 1.0 6242Y going to another plug with 2 way adaptor. That in turn feeds a freezer in the coal hole, plus socket to use a lawnmower (or hot tub:eek:). From there it goes via more 1.0 to the lights strung round the building and from the final flood it is indeed .75 running to the socket that has a salvaged tubular heater for the porch PLUS two 50W GU 10's. The plug in the porch has a 6A only label. Can you GET 6A plug top fuses ??? ;)

We also found sockets wired in 1.0 spurred off other sockets, plus the kitchen was two radials spurred off sockets that was apparently done professionally.

Our man from the council came round yesterday, and he agrees that you can't certify whatever is run off a plug top, but LABC want a certificate as the plug and lights are permanent. Not my prob! He's also been picking my brains about how to wire in the half built conservatory. I think he'll probably end up running that from the lounge light as it's the nearest point!

I'll be soooo glad to leave this one!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
S

Shakey

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #6
Sorry - just typed a long reply, but lost it in reviewing it!!!! Short version:-

I bet it's a 13A fuse too. Cable from the plug top is 1.0 6242Y going to another plug with 2 way adaptor. That in turn feeds a freezer in the coal hole, plus socket to use a lawnmower (or hot tub:eek:). From there it goes via more 1.0 to the lights strung round the building and from the final flood it is indeed .75 running to the socket that has a salvaged tubular heater for the porch PLUS two 50W GU 10's. The plug in the porch has a 6A only label. Can you GET 6A plug top fuses ??? ;)

We also found sockets wired in 1.0 spurred off other sockets, plus the kitchen was two radials spurred off sockets that was apparently done professionally.

Our man from the council came round yesterday, and he agrees that you can't certify whatever is run off a plug top, but LABC want a certificate as the plug and lights are permanent. Not my prob! He's also been picking my brains about how to wire in the half built conservatory. I think he'll probably end up running that from the lounge light as it's the nearest point!

I'll be soooo glad to leave this one!
sorry to be pedantic, but they are not permanent.

It doesnt matter if he is supplying half the world off the 13A plug, your respsonsibility ends at the fixed wiring, and that is clearly not part of the fixed wiring (the fact that it may be tacked to the wall, run in trunking, whatever is irrelevent.)

I put a telly on my wall in the bedroom last week. Now if i run an extension lead to it from the nearest socket, would you include it as part of your installation / testing - no, of course not.

But i have run cable in surface mount slimline trunking, put a conventional surface mount socket outlet with plastic surface mount box on the end behind the telly, but at the other end, the trunking finshes just below the socket outelt on the wall, and my cable has a 13A plug top on it. So, it is still an extension lead, and is still not part of the fixed installation.

And I see your situation as exactly the same.:)
 
G

greekislandlover

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #7
Hi, and I don't think you are being pedantic.

Unfortunately I've been stuck in the middle all week! As far as I'm concerned I absolutely agree with you and it's none of my concern. That's what I've been telling him all week. But I'm not sure he's heard a word of it though. I just put a comment on existing installation that the porch was run off a plug top in the kitchen, wired by others and not part of this installation as he's sure to say we signed off the porch when the council come calling.

The LABC are in the mindset of "New construction = new electrics = need certificate". They haven't been round to see it, and I think they/planning *might* be being a bit pedantic as it's retrospective permission. Tenant doesn't see why I can't just sign it off for him. Our contact in the council just wants a quiet life, and has kept out of it.

But it does become slightly confused because the house is council owned, and if it were a periodic they would want us to remove all diy wiring. But as it's a new installation they only want us to certify what we have done and are keeping out of the argument.

Thankfully we finished that one today. :) Just wanted to have a bit of a grumble as we have had a crappy week!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
T

tony.towa

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #9
Hi greekislandlover.

Glad to see I'm not the only one who uses the forum to get bad days out of the system.

Hopefully you're feeling brighter now and ready to face a nice wet weekend (again) :(

Still a new week next week, more fun and adventures for us all to face :D
 
Bulk Workwear - Clothing Suppliers for the Whole Forum Network
This official sponsor may provide discounts for members

Reply to Some people!! in the Industrial Electrician Talk area at ElectriciansForums.net

Wetroom Store - Network Wetroom Suppliers
This official sponsor may provide discounts for members
Top Bottom