the sparks you worked with

[alarm man]

been thinking out this for a while as the sparks who trained me seem to be going to the great building sites in the sky more often,also bp posts about how he has his own team to show the ropes too(kin hell man) now im no super spark just an average spark,no fancy titles just a spark theres way better than me,but the lads i served my time under thinking about it were super sparks,they could do everything from new build domestics to industrial and controls/switchgear panel building marine etc,i can but i dont feel ive been anywhere near those lads, these skills are gone from the trade and the new breed isnt coming through,these lads would be my age now when i first rolled up on site,the only apprentice ive had was in the security game,i loved teaching him and taking the **** etc.great craic,and he turned out a decent alarm pup,i still lash him now if he doesnt do what i say:shame:,but the sparks who are in their forties like me now would have been trained by the same generation i worked with but have no one to pass their skills onto,all replaced with quick course lads who basically are training themselves,does anyone feel they are as good or better than the lads who trained you up or will that respect for those lads always mean you look up to them as spark gods,even if one came on a job now and said 'canny job that youngin,id still be floating on air' as i was 27 years ago..

 

[trev]

The guy I was with all the way through my apprenticeship is still a god to me, as are a hell of a lot of other guys I came into contact with while training. All seemed to use pretty much the same methods, a grudging bit of praise when something was done well and an almighty -------ing when something wasn't up to scratch sometimes often a clip too.
I have had some good apprentices since then but with others there appears to be massive gaps in their knowledge.It seems widely acknowledged that the trade has dumbed down but that's not just the trade's fault. I know from my own kids that if faced with a maths problem they'll reach for a calculator whereas I'll normally have the answer before they've even switched it on but as Tel or Murdoch pointed out the other day that stems from the mollycoddling attitude of no one fails.
Maybe we are a dying breed, just like the dinosaurs that once roamed the earth

 

[alarm man]

The guy I was with all the way through my apprenticeship is still a god to me, as are a hell of a lot of other guys I came into contact with while training. All seemed to use pretty much the same methods, a grudging bit of praise when something was done well and an almighty -------ing when something wasn't up to scratch sometimes often a clip too.
I have had some good apprentices since then but with others there appears to be massive gaps in their knowledge.It seems widely acknowledged that the trade has dumbed down but that's not just the trade's fault. I know from my own kids that if faced with a maths problem they'll reach for a calculator whereas I'll normally have the answer before they've even switched it on but as Tel or Murdoch pointed out the other day that stems from the mollycoddling attitude of no one fails.
Maybe we are a dying breed, just like the dinosaurs that once roamed the earth

true trev,even tho when i look in mirror i can convince mesel im still 20 yr old:laugh3: i feel i should have an apprentice to train up and give someone the same as i had,granted i **** about with alarms,thats not proper electrics(as me old man said,he was a spark too) but the fact the young lads leaving school are not been given the chance of an apprenticeship in a trade is starting to grind on me really..

 

[oldtimer]

Thats a hard one I served my time in industrial commercial and my boss put me on my own jobs at the end of my third year and when we took a what I would call a domestic spark yours truly had to train him up with conduit trunking micc 3 phase so me as a 4 year ladie as they say up here I thought he was a right barsteward but funny how you get older that infact he set me up for the rest of my life he knew I would not stand still because he instilled in me to always improve so I moved into alarms ,then BMS/HVAC controls then facilities maintenance with most of the guy I served my time with were still sparking. When I was young and stupid my old gaffer came in and said xx thinks that laddie is useless and I am in a mind to sack him as he was in his third year well me and him had a bust up because as I said the laddie is not stupid it is your pal xx thats a numpty a well smart arse you take him then so there he was tears rolling down his face saying I will never be a spark but to me it was just a challenge so sleeves rolled up and 5 years later I bumped into him he was sparking making a good living and a confident guy so I thought well give yourself a pat on the back then I thought na just give that old Barsteward the pat because he was the man that set it up. Funny old world indeed.

One point though the youngsters now have lost respect they think everybody owes them a living the only thing is they dont have an old barsteward keeping them right hence why you Alarm Man hanker after days gone past

 

[alarm man]

Thats a hard one I served my time in industrial commercial and my boss put me on my own jobs at the end of my third year and when we took a what I would call a domestic spark yours truly had to train him up with conduit trunking micc 3 phase so me as a 4 year ladie as they say up here I thought he was a right barsteward but funny how you get older that infact he set me up for the rest of my life he knew I would not stand still because he instilled in me to always improve so I moved into alarms ,then BMS/HVAC controls then facilities maintenance with most of the guy I served my time with were still sparking. When I was young and stupid my old gaffer came in and said xx thinks that laddie is useless and I am in a mind to sack him as he was in his third year well me and him had a bust up because as I said the laddie is not stupid it is your pal xx thats a numpty a well smart arse you take him then so there he was tears rolling down his face saying I will never be a spark but to me it was just a challenge so sleeves rolled up and 5 years later I bumped into him he was sparking making a good living and a confident guy so I thought well give yourself a pat on the back then I thought na just give that old Barsteward the pat because he was the man that set it up. Funny old world indeed.

One point though the youngsters now have lost respect they think everybody owes them a living the only thing is they dont have an old barsteward keeping them right hence why you Alarm Man hanker after days gone past

less of the old mate...i can still pull....well a swa,its still pulling...:laugh3:

 

[trev]

I still feel 17 mate (and act it according to me wife) The reason why there are no trade apprenticeships, or no proper ones anyway, is that no one is prepared to invest in anything that they're not going to get an immediate return from, this arises from the 1980s imho when they were all but done away with in favour of 6 month youth training schemes which when used properly, to screen kids to see if they were up to learning a trade, were a good thing but in most cases were used as a source of cheap labour because the government of the day were paying the trainees wage.
I myself am a product of this system, the company I was with took me on on one of these things and after a couple of months offered me a full apprenticeship but many friends of mine were sucked in at one end and spat out 6 months later.
Not wanting to politicise yet another thread but I blame good old Mrs Thatcher. There's a book I read called The Enemy Within, it should be required reading on any politics and economics course.

 

[diditrain]

I can honestly say that i wish that i had a grand old master to teach me, unfortunately i have just drifted between companies whilst being in this industry. Most of the lads who i worked with were very secretive and would barely give you the time of day.
Most of what i know has come from getting my head stuck into the books, discretely observing and last but not least, this great place.

 

[trev]

I've always tried to give any apprentice I've had the best I could possibly give him/her (Yes there's been 1 girl)
As I said earlier some of them have been mad keen others couldn't care less but you still try, well I did. I'd love to have enough work to take a lad under my wing and mould him into a good spark, the way my mentor did with me (I hope hehe)

 

[Guitarist]

Definitely a lack of respect now amongst some of the youngsters. No pecking order, no retribution, just "know your rights".

 

[ipf]

been thinking out this for a while as the sparks who trained me seem to be going to the great building sites in the sky more often,also bp posts about how he has his own team to show the ropes too(kin hell man) now im no super spark just an average spark,no fancy titles just a spark theres way better than me,but the lads i served my time under thinking about it were super sparks,they could do everything from new build domestics to industrial and controls/switchgear panel building marine etc,i can but i dont feel ive been anywhere near those lads, these skills are gone from the trade and the new breed isnt coming through,these lads would be my age now when i first rolled up on site,the only apprentice ive had was in the security game,i loved teaching him and taking the **** etc.great craic,and he turned out a decent alarm pup,i still lash him now if he doesnt do what i say:shame:,but the sparks who are in their forties like me now would have been trained by the same generation i worked with but have no one to pass their skills onto,all replaced with quick course lads who basically are training themselves,does anyone feel they are as good or better than the lads who trained you up or will that respect for those lads always mean you look up to them as spark gods,even if one came on a job now and said 'canny job that youngin,id still be floating on air' as i was 27 years ago..

Remember 'floating' after wiping a big lead termination and getting complemented. I went for a brew and when I got back the cable was on the floor and he told me to do it again. 'Practice makes perfect' ringing in my ears. These days 'Time is money' springs to mind.

 

[Knobhead]

It’s years since I’ve had an apprentice with me. It was something I really enjoyed. Being able to pass on some of the little tricks that make life easier. It would usually be me that got the large distribution systems to install. I had an agreement with the management that they would stay with me through the entire job, it kept their interest.

For fault finding I’d sabotage a part of the plant with the companies permission and let the lad off the leash. Keeping quiet when he’s heading in the right direction making, suggestions when going astray.

Amongst the worse experiences was with “qualified” electricians joining the company, set in there ways, trying to teach them anything was nigh on impossible!

As for the new electrical design draftsman they took on I’ll hold my peace.

 

[Guitarist]

It’s years since I’ve had an apprentice with me. It was something I really enjoyed. Being able to pass on some of the little tricks that make life easier. It would usually be me that got the large distribution systems to install. I had an agreement with the management that they would stay with me through the entire job, it kept their interest.

For fault finding I’d sabotage a part of the plant with the companies permission and let the lad off the leash. Keeping quiet when he’s heading in the right direction making, suggestions when going astray.

Amongst the worse experiences was with “qualified” electricians joining the company, set in there ways, trying to teach them anything was nigh on impossible!

As for the new electrical design draftsman they took on I’ll hold my peace.

That's how I cut my teeth in the real world

Makes me want to cry now when people on here ask how to test an immersion heater, and they are in peoples' homes charging by the hour.

 

[needasparks]

That's how I cut my teeth in the real world

Makes me want to cry now when people on here ask how to test an immersion heater, and they are in peoples' homes charging by the hour.

That would be the sparks next to you in the wholesalers wearing white plimpsols thinking they blend in.

Brilliant post Alarm man BTW.

 

[plugsandsparks]

Could start with globalisation as a root cause of the lack of apprenticeships or government policies of hands off management of our talent pool. All i can say really is that the company that spent their hard earned cash on me and 11 others at the age of 16 and got no value from use until 18 months later is long gone and been replaced by a housing estate and cinema complex.
The good news is that, as a dying breed our value is rising.

As for other sparkies, i only have bad memories of buzzing breakers, caps in pocket, substations that were so hot i fell asleep (honest) , i can remember some characters and i remember them for their eccentricities which seamed normal by todays standards.
A world long gone.

 

[Paul.M]

Great thread.

I'm what you may call an inbertweener. I'm 37 but did 2 years electrical labouring when I was 17 (house bashing) from an old school spark. Due to lack of qualifications at the time I move away from the game and did many different jobs (that has given my a good life knowledge). Anyway, went to full time college and was taught by some great sparks (although Phil might disagree on that point) and passed everything in 2008/9 just as the recession hit! Bad timing and if I could start again I would have gone straight from school into an apprenticeship or when I was 18 into college just so I could learn from the older sparks.

As an inbertweener I've seen the older ways and the newer ways. Although I've got nothing against any one bettering themselves, I'm concerned about the fast track route to become an electrician. This industry is not a "get rich quick scheme".

One of the people that signed up to a distant learning course and spent a ---- load of money on it is one of our own members, Amanda. That girl knows her stuff and will be a credit to the industry. A lot of people on here, including myself, have helped her out with books, advice, sending her questions on a daily basis on level 2 & 17th ed stuff, sent her materials so she can make up her own testing board at home, encouragement and understanding in the past year when her mum past away. She is going to become a great sparky and its people like these we should be helping out.

I'm no expert sparky but I will pass on what I know to the people that deserve it so they can get themselves to a higher position. That's what I want for myself, to progress into industrial but I can't see that happening so I'll continue bashing those houses, rewiring hotels, maintaining shops/restaurants so people can have working lights. LIVING THE DREAM!

 

[Guitarist]

I think that I have forgotten more than I know. I just can't remember....

 

[UNG]

Ahh a stroll down memory lane I often wonder about some of the guy's I learnt from and not just sparks but some of the other trades who passed on information, tips and tricks over the years. If they are still around now some will be close to the telegram age but I suspect a lot are in pastures new. Those were the days when you learnt all of the trade not just one sector as seems the norm these days ,no forums to ask questions it was down the library for some light reading, a time were you had pride in the job and the work you did. I understand and appreciate that things move on but were did it all go wrong, the last apprentice I employed was in the late nineties, he had little interest in the job and numerous times was told to put his mobile away the one previous to him was always arguing to the penny that his wages were wrong until it was pointed out he never did a full days work and had been docked accordingly

The best one had to be the lad that failed one section of his AM2 and told us all how hard it was I challenged him to bring the book in when he told me I would struggle to answer the question in the allowed 2 or 3 hours which was a circuit diagram that had a fault in it, his face was a picture when I pointed the fault out in 10 mins his problem was he thought he knew it all and didn't need to learn

I think Guitarist's last post is so true for many older sparks as we don't do the same job now as we did when we were apprentices. Times have changed the materials that are available now have changed the industry as have the training methods yes we have forgotten a lot and it's nice to drag up bits and pieces from the depths every now and then and put them to use

The industry may have lost it's way but it's been good to me over the years and given me plenty of good and happy memories and I hope it will continue to do so for a few years yet

 

[Rockingit]

I spent my youth in a father and son business, getting generally abused whilst educated in the best of styles. I had the honour to attend the Snr's funeral a few years ago, and with his passing I suddenly remembered all those questions I'd forgotten to ask, and those I had but had still yet to get a straight answer to. Gone now, and lost forever........ except for the fact that to this day I do things the way he taught me (well, mostly) and so that in turn is how I pass his ways and knowledge down to the others I (occasionally) instruct.

For sure, the industry is changing as technology evolves and some might argue that some skills and knowledge sets are now simply redundant, in the same way that the pocket calculator replaced the slide rule that in turn replaced the abacus. Some skills though are entirely time resistant - logical thinking, problem solving, the ability to make a straight line, mark and measure (irrespective of whether it's a wooden folding rule or some fancy laser gadgy).... and so on. So it's these skills which I most cherish, anything else can indeed be learnt from a book/internet.

Chief, I'll drink a pint of brown tonight, just for old times sake.

 

[malcolmsanford]

Well to start AM I'am the god now .......................................I wish . Yes my old sparks is still knocking about well into his 70s and still does a bit ......................

When home in May I renewed my Part P with him as my QS and we were in our village local and I was still getting -------ings off him for not doing the job properly and how us young'uns are the ruin of this industry, but by then I had plied him with 3 or 4 pints and he was well away

He was the one that told me that when he hung his overalls up at night they will know more about sparking than I ever would, and in the 45 yrs I have known him the closest I ever got to being told good job was going from son to Malc, when asked why I went from that I was told, well your time served now and a tradesman so you deserve that respect, I still remember having to walk away to stop him see my with wet eyes.

So all the qualifications, bits of paper and years of experience I have, am I as good as him, I suspect I'am, will I ever think I'am well I doubt it. Even today if I design something, install something or even talk about something always in the back of my mind I'm thinking is this how Bob would do it ...............and I expect that is because of the respect I have for him.

The industry as changed so much I guess. I doubt there is much difference really between his and mine generation. He was taught as I was, and I was taught the same way, it is just so unfortunate now I have no one to really pass this onto with the lack of apprentices for one, and the structure of the training.

In all honesty every past generation thinks they are better than the new one, but I think without doubt my generation is the last of it's kind in terms of how the industry is going. Whether the new one is going to be better is a matter of conjecture, but it will be vastly different

 

[baldelectrician]

Old electricians never die- they just phase away