Wagos or crimp?

[1Justin]

Hi, I'm pretty new to this but a first job (and remember the nice man from NICEIC etc needs to be impressed), requires me to extend cables which will be left maintenance free beneath floorboards. - It not being possible to take them back to source.

I've read many of the posts on crimps vs Wagos and boxes. Ignoring the Wagos right now, I have just bought a ratchet tool and some (cable clamp type) choc boxes, idea being to crimp the cables with insulated butt-crimps, enclose all in box (screw cable clamp type). I also have got some self amalgamating tape on the way with the intention of perhaps (or not) going round the whole thing.

Is perhaps the S-A tape an overkill? Maybe I should embrace modernity and begin with Wagos as I mean to continue?

If I do heatshrink instead of the boxes (I have no coloured heatshrink right now -only black), I was supposing it best to offset the three joints, over shrink L&N individually then overshrink the lot (or use self amalgamating?).

What grade/dia of heatshrink is recommended for red (1.5mm), blue (2.5mm) or yellow(6mm) size crimps? And also since I need to crimp 4mm cable, is there a crimp size missing here?

 

[topquark]

I would use crimps in that instance, either heat shrink or self amalgamating tape. Match colours of the cores for the heat shrink and use grey for the outside layer.

Edit: I should add SA tape if they're insulated crimps of course

 

[Richard Burns]

I agree with TQ, heat shrink and crimps.
I would point out the wagos are not currently classified as maintenance free connections and could not be used in an inaccessible locations.

Use a crimp that safely takes the cable and you will be OK with a decent crimping tool.

Self amalgamating tape is over doing a bit if you are crimping, heat shrinking and placing in a junction box.

 

[cakey]

I use Wagos in most cases..... Easier, quicker and though there's an argument that they are not officially maintenance free I'm sure their a safer connection than crimps. But going by the regs and to keep nic man happy crimps is prob best bet. If under floor board I would shove em in Choc box to save messing about with heat shrink and gun.

 

[lamb]

I would use maintenance free junction boxes (made by Ashley).
They are readily available from wholesalers in my area, pretty fast to terminate as they use push in terminals, takes about 2 mins per box.

 

[PC Electrics]

Crimps and wago-type connections both have their place in the modern world.

In your example where the junction is in a cavity with little space restriction or aesthetic requirement I would use a maintenance free JB from Ashley. Note that under a new standard maintenance free JBs must now carry the symbol "MF" - the Ashley ones defo do and meet a BS, don't know the number). Ashley are a Hager brand, so anywhere that does Hager stuff should have them.

In a situation where a joint has to be made and then buried (someone drille into a cable for example) I'd crimp. As you suggest, offset the crimps to keep the 'bulk' down. 6mm heat shrink over the L & N crimps, then 2 layers over the whole joint. Self amalgamating tape is a good alternative to heatshrink, but needs several layers and takes longer to apply, but has the advantage you can apply more layers over the conductors and less over the crimps to even the joint out and provide the protection where it is needed..

I buy my heat shrink from here:
Cable Accessories | Buy Cable Accessories Online THESITEBOX.COM
there are seperate sections for normal and adhesive lined.

I think Rich is correct that many wago-type connectors are not classed as MF, but I have a feeling that Wago branded ones are. Anyone know for sure?

 

[Specialist]

I use Wagos in most cases..... Easier, quicker and though there's an argument that they are not officially maintenance free I'm sure their a safer connection than crimps. But going by the regs and to keep nic man happy crimps is prob best bet. If under floor board I would shove em in Choc box to save messing about with heat shrink and gun.

Why would Wago's be Safer than a properly crimped splice ?

 

[1Justin]

Thanks Guys, and especially PC for the comprehensive answer.
Rgds

 

[cakey]

I agree with TQ, heat shrink and crimps.
I would point out the wagos are not currently classified as maintenance free connections and could not be used in an inaccessible locations.

Use a crimp that safely takes the cable and you will be OK with a decent crimping tool.

Self amalgamating tape is over doing a bit if you are crimping, heat shrinking and placing in a junction box.

Why would Wago's be Safer than a properly crimped splice ?

Wagos aren't better than a PROPERLY crimped splice but have seen some poor crimped terminations especially on solid cores. Wagos are connections for dummies.... That's why I use em

 

[Specialist]

Wagos aren't better than a PROPERLY crimped splice but have seen some poor crimped terminations especially on solid cores. Wagos are connections for dummies.... That's why I use em

Don;t get me wrong: Wago's are good connectors, that's why I carry them. I just wondered why you thought the were safer, bad crimped connections are down to the people installing them not the connector (Unless they're buying cheapies) but the same can be said for Wago's or any connector: They're only as good as the person installing them.

 

[PC Electrics]

I've had problems with the plastic splitting on cheap crimps and have had to go back to two installs where they were used (crimps bought from Screwfix). I now only use SWA branded ones which I buy from Edmundsons.

Having said that I have had a problem with SWA ones where the middle 'stop' was not properly formed, so the first conductor went too far in and then the second one didn't get enough purchase and so a poor joint was formed. I've had a conversation with the SWA rep when I met him at Edmundsons by chance and he promised to get their quality guys to look into it. Something to watch out for.

 

[Specialist]

1 to watch out for, cheers PC. I'm going to have to re-stock on crimps before long, have'nt bought any for years, I had a huge kit of Ampliversal crimps given to me by an ex boss when he retired but i've just about finished them off now lol.

 

[PC Electrics]

It was a very frustrating problem. Fortunately the client was both understanding of the problem (I threw my stock of about 1000 crimps into his bin) and appreciative of my efforts to put it right.

Hopefully others reading this will benefit from the learning.

Just as an aside - if you have SWA crimps check them for this. If your exhibit the problem then ring SWA up (the numbers on the packets). The more people call about things like this the more notice a manufacturer is going to take and will put it right.

 

[jase]

http://www.****direct.co.uk/Technical/DataSheets/Hager/JB_Guide.pdf

tlc-direct

 

[jase]

I would imagine that the hager maintenence fre JB;s are MF marked as they comply with both reg 561 and reg 563, whereas wagos on their own do not coply with reg 561
The hager maintenence frr JB;s use wago series 862 connectors in them and also have the cable clamps as required in 561

 

[andekoch]

I would imagine that the hager maintenence fre JB;s are MF marked as they comply with both reg 561 and reg 563, whereas wagos on their own do not coply with reg 561
The hager maintenence frr JB;s use wago series 862 connectors in them and also have the cable clamps as required in 561

correct, WAGO does not currently carry the MF mark (on the box) but are likely to get this/ apply for it in the new year. To comply the box plus connectors as a package needs to comply and (as I understand it) wago make the connectors and the box is made by a separate manufacturer (but branded wago by agreement and as it is designed for the wago connector).

 

[1Justin]

.. But I take it that if it's crimped (and insulated) connection inside a box, then "MF" marking is not relevant and more or less any choc-box type enclosure meeting IP4X (with cable strain relief if appropriate) would classify?

 

[andekoch]

that is what I would assume also.

 

[i=p/u]

never done any crimping, so what is there to know about it for a beginner...... i do domestic mainly, the odd week comercial...

in my head you stick to cables in and squeeze.. but im sure is little more than that.... i know less joins the better....

 

[Specialist]

Basically that yes mate, make sure there's no wire showing outside the crimp. Use the right size crimp for the wire & use a good ratchet crimper.