Connecting speaker wire to audio plugs

[DanUK]

Hi guys. I hope you can help me please?

I need to hook my Tv up to my AV receiver and the only wire that's between the two is a bare speaker wire (red / black). Unfortunately I cannot run any other cables that way due to the way it was plastered back in.

Doing some research it seems it is possible, although not ideal, to add Audio jack (white / red) plugs onto a speaker cable.

I've ordered 2 lots of these from Amazon so I can chop the plugs off and hopefully attach them to the speaker wires: Belkin F3Y116bf1M 1m Portable Y Audio Cable Belkin F3Y116bf1M 1m Portable Y Audio Cable: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics - https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B006W95DPU/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_66w8yb1G7Z27B

Here's my questions if I may:

1) if I were to chop the ends of the above and strip the wire could I use a terminal block connector to connect them? I.e red speaker wire to the red audio plug wire?

2) would it be better to solder these together?

The terminal connector block I mention is:

3A BLOCK CONNECTOR STRIP for jointing cable 3A BLOCK CONNECTOR STRIP for jointing cable: Amazon.co.uk: DIY & Tools - https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B003ZWE7HW/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_V8w8ybM30MK8G

Just to also mention there is only one speaker cable so hopefully the red wire can hook up to one, and the black to the other?

Thanks in advance!

 

[dmxtothemax]

Like you said -
it will work but is not ideal,
the main problem is likely to be hum
as the wire is unsheilded
how ever if there is no hum
then you may just get away with it.

 

[Andy-1960]

I'm not sure this will work.

I presume you are hoping to use one core for video and the other for audio.

The problem as I see it is that you only have two cores when you effectively need four.
You need a signal plus a ground for each with the ground usually doubling up with the screen which you don't have.

You may be best looking at a wireless alternative such as One For All SV1760 Wireless HDMI Sender: Amazon.co.uk: Hi-Fi & Speakers - https://www.amazon.co.uk/One-All-SV1760-Wireless-Sender/dp/B01BMG9UE2/ref=pd_day0_23_2?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=V86HF0B6W5RAFX197DY2

 

[SparkyChick]

How far have you got to run the cables? And what sort of layout have you got? A photo may help.

 

[Lucien Nunes]

There are two problems with using your speaker cable. One is that it is not shielded (aka screened) so it will tend to pick up interference and hum on the much more sensitive line level connection that you want to make with it. The other is that you only have two conductors when you actually need three, Left, Right and Ground which completes the circut for both channels and would normally be via the shielding.

If the equipment at both ends is grounded to mains earth via nearby socket outlets on the same circuit, then you might be able to send left down one core and right down the other, however it will be even more prone to picking up hum and if the source end gets disconnected from ground while the volume is turned up at the destination, you will get an ear-splitting, speaker-destroying level of buzz. If either end is not grounded (e.g. is double-insulated and has 2-core mains flex) then you would have to add this otherwise you do not have a complete circuit for the audio and you will simply get the horrendous buzz.

The only way you can reliably get clean line-level audio through a speaker cable is to use a balancing transformer at each end to convert the unbalanced phono connections to balanced (symmetrical, neither wire grounded), but in this case you definitely need both cores of the cable for one channel in which case you can only send mono, i.e. you will have to mix L & R at the source and feed the mix into both channels at the destination.

I don't recommend any of the above, I think you will want a wireless solution or a new 2-pair screened cable installed.

 

[Midwest]

What audio 'sockets' at the tv are you intending to use, and what source are you using, Freeview, cable or satellite?

 

[Scratch Music]

I assume its just for audio feed from TV to amp. Your TV will have L and R audio outputs and so will the amp (inputs). You can try using one core for each but, as said by others, the cable should be screened. However, over a short distance, less than 1m, you might be lucky. Try it. Soldered, always.

 

[DanUK]

Thank you very much for the replies. I'm so glad I asked.

Just to clarify it's only for audio (L and R) - the av receiver is a Pioneer VSX330 4K Home Cinema Receiver Pioneer VSX330 4K Home Cinema Receiver: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics - https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B014Q2LOMA/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_YME8ybAEMV3F6

My idea was to use the 'CD' L and R inputs (second picture shows the back of the receiver).

Unfortunately I literally just have the speaker cable and nothing else. I'd have to look at a wireless option if not.

I do have a spare HDMI running down the wall too, it I don't believe I can get that to the AV receiver? The TV does support ARC but I can't see a HDMI in on the AV receiver.

Thanks again for any further help.

 

[DanUK]

Thank you very much for the replies. I'm so glad I asked.

Just to clarify it's only for audio (L and R) - the av receiver is a Pioneer VSX330 4K Home Cinema Receiver Pioneer VSX330 4K Home Cinema Receiver: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics - https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B014Q2LOMA/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_YME8ybAEMV3F6

My idea was to use the 'CD' L and R inputs (second picture shows the back of the receiver).

Unfortunately I literally just have the speaker cable and nothing else. I'd have to look at a wireless option if not.

I do have a spare HDMI running down the wall too, it I don't believe I can get that to the AV receiver? The TV does support ARC but I can't see a HDMI in on the AV receiver.

Thanks again for any further help.

Oh, and the speaker cable used was: Manax 50 m Speaker Cable 2x 2.5 mm² White 100% OFC Copper Manax 50 m Speaker Cable 2x 2.5 mm² White 100% OFC: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics - https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00I0UH6TA/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_NPE8yb9JF0E2D

 

[Midwest]

You may find this forum more useful;

Audio Video Home Entertainment Resource and Community | AVForums - https://www.avforums.com/

Still wondering what 'audio', you are giving your amp?

 

[DanUK]

Thanks. I can try there too. Basically the Audio from the TV so that it uses my speaker setup rather than the TV speakers.

 

[mache]

Is the existing cable bare plastered in or run in a buried conduit. Could you pull out the current cable and replace with an optical lead to connect to amp???

 

[DanUK]

Thanks mache. I wish I could :-( it's plastered in and I can't pull anything through it (I've tried), I think the cable was also pinned beforehand. Definitely solid.

 

[Andy-1960]

I certainly would not recommend using the main earth as the return (in place of the missing screen) as in the event of a mains fault the fault current may end up in your TV and or AV receiver and it probably would not do them much good.

 

[DanUK]

Sorry I have to admit that is a bit beyond my knowledge. As the speaker cable will (hopefully) have standard audio plugs on the end I don't think they'll be getting any power as such. Is that what you mean?

In principle is it worth trying the route I planned?

Thanks for all the help - much appreciated!

 

[Andy-1960]

Basically you need 3 cores L, R and Ground and you only have 2 cores, so no, I do not think it's worth trying.

 

[DanUK]

Thanks Andy. That saves me trying it. Back to the drawing board... I'll try and figure out if I can somehow utilise the spare HDMI cable and get it working with ARC!

 

[dmxtothemax]

you may be able to use a video to cat five convertor,
then send the cat 5 along your speaker wire
And at the other end a cat 5 to video convertor.

do you want to send video or audio or both ?

 

[DanUK]

Thanks DMX. Just audio

 

[Lucien Nunes]

If the receiver does not have an HDMI input you can use an audio de-embedder to convert the ARC audio to analogue or optical, e.g. https://www.lindy.co.uk/audio-video-c2/converters-scalers-c105/hdmi-4k-audio-extractor-de-embedder-with-arc-mhl-p8542/s8698 These are available with 2-channel or optional 5.1 decoding.

As an alternative, if you are handy with a soldering iron, you could make up adaptors to use a couple of the screened pairs in the HDMI cable for the analogue audio signal from the TV. Although intended for the video signals, these will work well for analogue audio over this distance. A pair of HDMI back-to-back couplers and a short HDMI cable cut in half, will give you bare ends to wire into phono plugs. Any pairs will do provided you use the same ones at both ends. This is the sort of solution I would use for my own purposes as it will work OK and I would have those bits lying around anyway. Of course if you were being mean you could cut the plugs off the installed HDMI cable and wire the ends of that into the phono plugs, but you will come to regret it as HDMI plugs cannot be refitted when you upgrade and want to use it for HDMI.

Re line-level audio over speaker leads, although I do not recommend it, it can usually be done in some shape or form. In my previous life as a live audio engineer and designer of audio equipment, I have had occasion to send audio down all sorts of weird interconnects.

 

[DanUK]

Thanks so much Lucien. Much appreciated.

Funny you should mention the ARC converter. I have tried this but that didn't work - hence my trying to get an alternative. Maybe you can spot what I did wrong here?

So, the TV supports ARC via its HDMI slots (it's a Philips 55PUS6401) and my AV receiver is a Pioneer VSX330 4K Home Cinema Receiver: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics - https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B014Q2LOMA/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o09_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1.

As the receiver accepts digital in, I thought I'd try the following:

• HDMI into the TV
• I had to connect it to the other HDMI as it was in a different part of the wall - I used a: UGREEN HDMI Adapter, HDMI Female to Female Connector: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics - https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00B2HPAE6/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
• HDMI into one of these: Cablesson HDelity HDMI audio extractor ARC - HD Digital: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics - https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B009D70JIY/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
• Digital cable into the optical in

The TV never discovered it though and kept using its inbuilt speakers.

Although I'm not home right now, the one thing I didn't test was just plugging the HDMI directly into one of the 4 HDMI inputs (i.e. SAT) to see if that works.

Thanks again!

 

[egg67]

All you need to do is connect the hdmi cable from the hdmi out on the AV to the TVs then turn on the ARC will then work

 

[DanUK]

Hi egg67, thanks! The HDMI out on the AV actually goes to a projector - that's the main purpose. I just want the audio from the TV to be able to use my ceiling speakers (from the AV unit).

 

[egg67]

HDMI out on AV to a hdmi splitting , hdmi splitter to TVs and p screen, turn off speaker for TV in tv settings make shore splitter is set to tv

 

[DanUK]

Ah thank you. I can give that a go when I'm home. I naturally assumed HDMI OUT was purely for the projector (from the 4 inputs next to it on the AV unit (second picture of the Amazon link)). I assumed it would be a HDMI IN for ARC (from the TV).

 

[egg67]

On your AV ARC only works on the out, make shore you turn on ARC on the AV and turn off speakers on TV, it might be best to set up with the HDMI from TV plugged in to the out on the AV out then when all working add a splitter to the out

 

[DanUK]

Thanks egg67! I can definitely get one of those ordered.

So, just to clarify by what you're saying:
1) HDMI from one of the ARC HDMI OUTs on TV to go to this splitter on my HDMI OUT of AV unit (one will go to projector, the other this cable between TV and AV unit)
2) this would make the TV use the speakers connected to the AV unit?

One I found: SYS HDMI 1 Male To Dual HDMI 2 Female Y Splitter Cable: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics - https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/Electronics-Photo/SYS-HDMI-Male-Female-Splitter-Cable-Adapter/B01FQQ1GFU/ref=sr_1_17?s=electronics-accessories&ie=UTF8&qid=1492357509&sr=1-17&keywords=hdmi+splitter

Thanks!

 

[egg67]

The outs on the TV ore in's, I think on your TV HDMI 1,2,3 are ARC which means they will send a sound signal back to your AV as long as it has ARC which your AV has but only on the HDMI out, for fist time set up just plug the HDMI cable from the TV to the AV out, turn TV and AV off, then turn AV on then TV make shore AV is set to ARC and speakers on TV are turned off.
If it works then get a splinter that is ARC will give you a link latter to one that will work, is this setup all in one room?

 

[DanUK]

Thank you. That makes sense. I'll give it a go.

The Av receiver is in a loft so separate to the TV.

If you have an Amazon link to a decent splitter that would be great. Thanks!

 

[egg67]

Can you give me a full brake down of your setup? Sounds like you are trying to set up a multi room,

 

[DanUK]

Thanks egg67. Sorry if this is getting confusing.

So, forget about the TV for now. The setup in my loft is the AV receiver I linked - to that:

• 2 x ceiling speakers
• 1 x center speaker
• 4 HDMI inputs (things like Amazon Firestick, Apple TV etc) - all 4 HDMI's are currently used (on the second picture of the AV unit, picture 2, the 4 inputs next to the HDMI out)
• to the HDMI OUT is my projector
• infrared repeaters so I can control it from downstairs

What I'm missing is being able to connect the TV to it so I can use the sound from the TV through the AV unit and out through the speakers mentioned. The only wires I can access, due to plastering/pinning and now not being able to relay any cables are:

• 1 x speaker cable (red/white) - linked on previous post the type of them
• 1 x HDMI cable (4k ready)

One of the things I tried, which I thought would work but didn't was:

As the receiver accepts digital in, I thought I'd try the following:

• HDMI into the TV
• I had to connect it to the other HDMI as it was in a different part of the wall - I used a: UGREEN HDMI Adapter, HDMI Female to Female Connector: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics - https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00B2HPAE6/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
• HDMI into one of these: Cablesson HDelity HDMI audio extractor ARC - HD Digital: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics - https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B009D70JIY/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
• Digital cable into the optical in

The TV never discovered it though and kept using its inbuilt speakers.

Thanks again!

 

[egg67]

That setup might work just go to settings on Sound settings on TV turn off speaker, on AV turn off ARC

 

[DanUK]

Ah, I did try it with ARC switched on the AV unit. I'll try without. I also confused myself with the converter ( Cablesson HDelity HDMI audio extractor ARC - HD Digital: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics - https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B009D70JIY/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 )

The optical cable obviously goes into the TOSLINK OUT port. Should the HDMI be in HDMI IN or HDMI OUT?

Thanks again!

 

[egg67]

AV out to TV in, so if you think about it, it will be out, in, out, in till it gets to TV, try not to think about the signal going back with the ARC

 

[DanUK]

Thanks. Sorry I'm confused (doesn't take much!). I mean for the box I mentioned - so it should be on the HDMI OUT and then the TOSLINK OUT to the TV OPTICAL IN on the AV unit? Then on the AV unit disable ARC in the settings, and on the TV disable speakers?

As a backup, would it not work if I tried the 'SAT' HDMI IN on the back of AV direct to the TV?

Sorry to drag this out!

 

[egg67]

No all you are trying to do is send sound to AV, with most setups you have lets say a sky box, firestick, games consul all connected to the AV in's, then the AV out goes to the TV for the pic and sound of AV is of, as the aerial goes to the TV and not the AV the AV needs a sound source but not a picture source that is why we have ARC, so think that ARC is going backwards, so you need to Connect the HDMI from the TV to the out on the box then the optical to the AV

 

[DanUK]

Thanks. That makes sense. That's what I tried before with no joy, but maybe that's because ARC was enabled on the AV. I'll try without. Thanks!

 

[dmxtothemax]

Have a look on e bay there are lots of video to cat 5 convertors.
most of them are designed to convert video and audio together,
but that should be no problem, hook up the video and audio
then at the other end just don't use the video output.
Cat 5 will be quite happy in speaker wire.

 

[DanUK]

Thanks dmx. How would this connect to the AV unit though as there's no cat5 input?

I think my only options other than splitting the HDMI OUT on the AV unit as someone suggested before is either a COAX in or DIGITAL OPTICAL IN (which I have a converter for, but didn't work).

Thanks again!

 

[DanUK]

And so the story evolves!

I tried some bits tonight:

1. using the ARC box I linked above: HDMI into 'HDMI OUT', disabling ARC on the AV, optical cable from the box to the optical in - nothing worked and the TV didn't recognise the 'smart link' and reverted to its own speakers
2. I then tried connecting the HDMI direct from the TV to the 'SAT INPUT' on my AV (linked above too) - this found the speakers and it disabled the TV speakers and said it was using the media. If I used the volume control on my TV it made a buzzing noise through my ceiling speakers (linked to the AV unit) but I couldn't hear the TV sound

Any thoughts?

Thanks again. I really appreciate your help.