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Don’t get taken for a ride by electrical ‘Rogue Trainers’ urges industry body TESP Rogue Trainers campai - EletriciansForums.net


Want to become a qualified electrician? Look carefully at the training courses on offer to avoid wasting time and money, is the advice in a new campaign from electrical industry body The Electrotechnical Skills Partnership (TESP).

With thousands of searches each year on terms such as ‘electrical courses’ and ‘how to become an electrician’, many people are at risk of taking the wrong training path if they’re not aware of the correct routes they should follow.

Alongside the many training providers who are doing the right thing and offering industry-recognised qualifications, there are unfortunately some training providers – dubbed by TESP as ‘Rogue Trainers’ – who don’t deliver on their promises, presenting a range of courses which look impressive to the untrained eye, but on proper inspection don’t lead to qualified status.

Don’t get taken for a ride by electrical ‘Rogue Trainers’ urges industry body {filename} | ElectriciansForums.net Click to view video

In a short, animated video from TESP, an unsuspecting victim is drawn into a house of horrors by false claims which turn out not to be all they seem.

The advice to those wanting to become an electrician is look carefully at what’s on offer and be aware of red flags like hard sells, payment plans, and qualification packages which aren’t recognised by industry.

Full advice is available at www.roguetrainers.co.uk with top tips for choosing a training provider, along with warning signs to look out for when researching a provider’s claims. Visitors are signposted to TESP’s industry approved Training Routes to read more on the right paths to follow to become qualified.

“There are still too many reports of people spending thousands of pounds with companies who wilfully misrepresent where their training leads,” said Ruth Devine, TESP Chair and Managing Director of SJD Electrical. “Some providers use high-pressure sales techniques to trap learners with a large financial commitment, but devious contract terms mean there’s no realistic prospect of achieving the qualification.”

“When so many training providers jump through hoops to do things properly and engage responsibly with industry and employers, it’s important that potential learners are aware of the pitfalls.

“We hope to raise awareness of this campaign to the general public and help those who may fall foul of rogue trainers when looking to become an electrician.”

Watch the video and find out more about the campaign.

Don’t get taken for a ride by electrical ‘Rogue Trainers’ urges industry body {filename} | ElectriciansForums.net Click to view video
 
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Yeah i mean what qual counts? Level 2? Inspection and testing + experience? It's a terrible minefield of an industry imo.

I cut my teeth in Europe and their rules are far superior, they're properly regulated and even their standards are better.

UK is miles behind in every single measurable metric imo.
Yeah, I see your point. With no legal obligation to hold any qualification to do electrical work, the only qualifications that count are the ones your employers or clients want to see. As I'm self employed, that generally means 'none'.

I took the short course route into the industry, but largely consider myself self-taught. I don't have a huge amount of faith in formal training/education (I find you mostly end up teaching yourself with the aid of books anyway), but I wanted some sort of qualification so I could say I was 'qualified' if anyone asked. Only once have I been asked if I'm 'fully qualified', to which I said I'm qualified for the range of work I do (which is true, but then so is anyone).
 
Yeah i mean what qual counts? Level 2? Inspection and testing + experience? It's a terrible minefield of an industry imo.
You're right there...but it's been the same and just getting worse for goodness knows how long. All those top 'greats' of our industry (and government) just doing there best to ferk up everything that's gone before them with a fast forward button....making it so easy to become an electrician yet so difficult to become an experienced and competent one.
Not just our lot, of course, but we're a hell of a good example.
 
Except in France you do not have to be qualified to work on your own domestic installation, no such thing a Part P or notifying your LBC.

And the point here is there is an actual definition of what constitutes 'fully qualified' and it's called 'technicien', one step above 'electricien' which is their equivalent to domestic installer. It's a regulated profession in France, it isn't here which is why our quals aren't readily accepted in Europe.
 
But means nothing in domestic work if the main is already connected, the only time an installation is checked is in a house sale and then not by anyone qualified or Consuel.
 
Persons to be competent to prevent danger and injury (EAWR)

16. No person shall be engaged in any work activity where technical knowledge or experience is necessary to prevent danger or, where appropriate, injury, unless he possesses such knowledge or experience, or is under such degree of supervision as may be appropriate having regard to the nature of the work.
So far as I know this is the only statutory requirement in doing electrical work. While an industrial installation worker and domestic worker my have the same qualifications, there is no way either could do the others work. Regs talk of "skilled persons" another layer of definition.
So statutorily: Technical knowledge, from qualifications? Experience; on the job? But the whole point of being competent, the aim, is to PREVENT DANGER AND INJURY. So work carried out must be done to regs to obviate injury and danger. Which in some ways is common sense. I think it is easily forgotten that an electricians work is not that difficult. From a qualification viewpoint it is really just basic science nothing rocket science about it. The techniques employed by a skilled experienced person are not that difficult once learnt. I do think sometimes some get a bit up themselves in presenting being an electrician as an insoluble maze of technical difficulty whereas it is very mundane and simple. Present company excepted of course.
 
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134.2.1 During erection and on completion of an installation or an addition or alteration to an installation,
and before it is put into service, appropriate inspection and testing shall be carried out by skilled persons competent
to verify that the requirements of this Standard have been met.
Under definitions;
Skilled person (electrically). Person who possesses, as appropriate to the nature of the electrical work to be
undertaken, adequate education, training and practical skills, and who is able to perceive risks and avoid hazards
which electricity can create
Just to further define what an electrician should be by statute and regs. HSE provide further info on competent as defined in EAWR. But this is all rather common sense. Competent is mentioned a number of times especially around I&T having to be competent to do I&T.
 
UK is miles behind in every single measurable metric imo.
Ok now thats fighting talk! I think you're statements below are open to debate.
There is no standard, body, qualification or overseeing authority that defines 'fully qualified'. In short, there's no such thing.

there is no standard setters

I think you will find in the link a tad of standards which govern entry and competence within the electrical trades. CPS are not just there to say your work is ok but also to assess entrants to ensure they have the competencies and qualifications to safely work. You can see gov.uk has devolved the responsibility for overseeing competency to these schemes. I will be the first to admit that there are flaws. However are you really saying there are no imcompetent electricians in europe? That you will only find them here in England or Holland? Arguing about "fully qualified" is tilting at windmills imho. It is purely semantics. Yes it could be stated in a better way, but does not really cut to the core of what a competent person is by changing a few words. It would seem you may have much to contribute to TESP. I think a lot of people on here are highly skilled persons and competent and would have much to contribute here and abroad. Some of your statements suggest this may not be so by implication. I object to that. While I take some of what you say on board as having merit there are parts that skate close to insult which I have always been taught, is it kind, is it true, is it necessary, if not, do not say it. You might usefully reflect on that.
 
Persons to be competent to prevent danger and injury (EAWR)

16. No person shall be engaged in any work activity where technical knowledge or experience is necessary to prevent danger or, where appropriate, injury, unless he possesses such knowledge or experience, or is under such degree of supervision as may be appropriate having regard to the nature of the work.
So far as I know this is the only statutory requirement in doing electrical work. While an industrial installation worker and domestic worker my have the same qualifications, there is no way either could do the others work. Regs talk of "skilled persons" another layer of definition.
And here is the first problem; that language used is not consistent across mediums. I get EAWR has to by its nature use definitive terms but it would help if the non-statutory media we utilise used the same language to avoid ambiguity; A classic example often given is EAWRs use of SHALL and MUST for absolute regulation, no use of unambiguous terms like MAY etc.
So statutorily: Technical knowledge, from qualifications? Experience; on the job? But the whole point of being competent, the aim, is to PREVENT DANGER AND INJURY. So work carried out must be done to regs to obviate injury and danger. Which in some ways is common sense. I think it is easily forgotten that an electricians work is not that difficult.
From a qualification viewpoint it is really just basic science nothing rocket science about it.
From a hands on tools stand point you're probably right but it's the understanding of the scientific fundamentals and how to work safely with them.

The techniques employed by a skilled experienced person are not that difficult once learnt. I do think sometimes some get a bit up themselves in presenting being an electrician as an insoluble maze of technical difficulty whereas it is very mundane and simple. Present company excepted of course.
True but to those that have no clue, as with any skill, it can be like witchcraft is being performed in front of you.

Any idiot can put wires in holes and tighten screws but it takes time, knowledge, retention to select the right wire, the right tools and all the other bits that we learn over time to truly do the job problem. Anyone can lash it in, flick a switch and see light turns on but it takes thr right kind of person to do it safely etc.

134.2.1 During erection and on completion of an installation or an addition or alteration to an installation,and before it is put into service, appropriate inspection and testing shall be carried out by skilled persons competent to verify that the requirements of this Standard have been met.

Under definitions;
Skilled person (electrically). Person who possesses, as appropriate to the nature of the electrical work to be undertaken, adequate education, training and practical skills, and who is able to perceive risks and avoid hazards which electricity can create

Just to further define what an electrician should be by statute and regs. HSE provide further info on competent as defined in EAWR. But this is all rather common sense. Competent is mentioned a number of times especially around I&T having to be competent to do I&T.
Competency is mentioned in most H&S legislation, as opposed to qualifications, presumably because the latter is a simply metric of the former.

Biggest issue in the whole thing is that (in terms of terminology) we're not all singing off the same hymnsheet; Legislators will talk of competence (because they have no financial reason to talk about qualifications).

Trainers and other organisations (set to benefit from cash changing hands - money for services that is, not bribes, although....) will talk of qualifications because it's how they make thier money,

Old timers will talk of apprenticeships being the dogs danglies because it is how they cut thier teeth and were likely no alternative routes available.

Course students will complain (I count myself in that) that companies won't give them thr time of day or accept anything other than apprenticeship due to the lack of financial reason of thrm to take non-apprentices that have "front-loaded' the knowledge so they could understand what they were doing before doing it.

It needs a collective and industry-wide shake up but that will likely not happen and so we'll still hear that Apprenticeships aren't what thry once we're, that the electrical industry needs an overhaul, that anyone that came into the industry via any route other than apprenticeship is seen as inferior or worse; isn't a spark.

I guess those that truly want it (regardless of route), will put thr work in and go and get it. I've been lucky enough to get a job with a company that specifically created roles aimed at those working at level 3 (take it to mean NVQ3 as opposed to Level 3 (2365 / 8202-30) ) and although I didn't have that NVQ3, I was able to convince them that it wasn't having that NVQ3 that made me a good choice but my study ethic, the being the 'Class of Covid', having to put in MORE work to ensure that the knowledge stuck and being able to demonstrate that in interview.

It's ---- but our own experiences are what we make of it. Life is a ---- sandwich, it's just more enjoyable if you have the palate of a dung-beetle ?
 
Ok now thats fighting talk! I think you're statements below are open to debate.




I think you will find in the link a tad of standards which govern entry and competence within the electrical trades.
Nope, they are standards required to join optional third party certification schemes. Not the same thing.
However are you really saying there are no imcompetent electricians in europe?
No?
I think a lot of people on here are highly skilled persons and competent and would have much to contribute here and abroad. Some of your statements suggest this may not be so by implication. I object to that. While I take some of what you say on board as having merit there are parts that skate close to insult which I have always been taught, is it kind, is it true, is it necessary, if not, do not say it. You might usefully reflect on that.
I'm sorry but pointing out factual information about qualifications isn't insulting. If you find it so you may usefully reflect on the fact that you may need to harden up a bit.
 
Facts about qualifications? You haven't pointed out any. I will give you an example of what pointing out a fact about qualifications is. Please see attached qualification requirements to join a scheme. These are the facts regards qualifications which you seem to be confused about in that you seem to think there is no standard of required qualifications/experience. Those "optional requirements that are not qualifications,
Nope, they are standards required to join optional third party certification schemes. Not the same thing.
Are a list of qualifications and competencies required to join the trade which you are insisting don't exist. They do. For a person in the uk if they want to know how to become an electrician they would refer to these requirements in order to map out how they can enter the trade. You paint a picture of chaos and indecipherable standards, it simply is not the case the standars are right before you and you are saying they do not exist. For anyone reading this thread who gets the feeling that there is no way to work out how to qualify for entry into the trade, read the attached pdf and you WILL be able to see what is required. Don't listen to unfounded statements that there are no standards. I defy anyone to read the pdf and show me how there are no standards. Next I will go into JIB standard entry requirements and gold card entry qualifications. In order to demonstrate there are very specific requirements for entry into work in the UK as an electrician for those who do not understand the structure of the UK requiements.
 

Attachments

  • EAS-Entry-Requirements-April-21.pdf
    490.4 KB · Views: 7
Facts about qualifications? You haven't pointed out any. I will give you an example of what pointing out a fact about qualifications is. Please see attached qualification requirements to join a scheme. These are the facts regards qualifications which you seem to be confused about in that you seem to think there is no standard of required qualifications/experience. Those "optional requirements that are not qualifications,

Are a list of qualifications and competencies required to join the trade which you are insisting don't exist. They do. For a person in the uk if they want to know how to become an electrician they would refer to these requirements in order to map out how they can enter the trade. You paint a picture of chaos and indecipherable standards, it simply is not the case the standars are right before you and you are saying they do not exist. For anyone reading this thread who gets the feeling that there is no way to work out how to qualify for entry into the trade, read the attached pdf and you WILL be able to see what is required. Don't listen to unfounded statements that there are no standards. I defy anyone to read the pdf and show me how there are no standards. Next I will go into JIB standard entry requirements and gold card entry qualifications. In order to demonstrate there are very specific requirements for entry into work in the UK as an electrician for those who do not understand the structure of the UK requiements.
Being a CPS member does NOT guarantee Competence.
 
Facts about qualifications? You haven't pointed out any. I will give you an example of what pointing out a fact about qualifications is. Please see attached qualification requirements to join a scheme. These are the facts regards qualifications which you seem to be confused about in that you seem to think there is no standard of required qualifications/experience. Those "optional requirements that are not qualifications,

Are a list of qualifications and competencies required to join the trade which you are insisting don't exist. They do. For a person in the uk if they want to know how to become an electrician they would refer to these requirements in order to map out how they can enter the trade. You paint a picture of chaos and indecipherable standards, it simply is not the case the standars are right before you and you are saying they do not exist. For anyone reading this thread who gets the feeling that there is no way to work out how to qualify for entry into the trade, read the attached pdf and you WILL be able to see what is required. Don't listen to unfounded statements that there are no standards. I defy anyone to read the pdf and show me how there are no standards. Next I will go into JIB standard entry requirements and gold card entry qualifications. In order to demonstrate there are very specific requirements for entry into work in the UK as an electrician for those who do not understand the structure of the UK requiements.
The EAS you linked to lists requirements to join an optional scheme, so that you may self-notify any notifiable work you carry out in dwellings.

Not having the required qualifications (which I mostly don't), and not being on such a scheme (which I'm not) doesn't legally stop you from doing any electrcial work, including notifiables (which I do).
 
Thanks to all for keeping this article thread professional and on-topic. :)

I hope this new partnership doesn't just recommend training routes that have paid them to be recommended. I fear that. But I'm sure it'll give the jitters to the dodgy ones who use salesmen to go around fleecing newbies.

I changed domains from .co.uk to .net partly because of a time a few years ago when one of them went to nominet and said our feedback on here about them was not genuine and they had paid for a nominet legal body to represent them in the case, so it risked losing our domain so I had to roll over and remove a thread or two.

We're now hosted in France, backups in Germany, server guy in France, domain is international. It's the most I can do short of living on the moon to protect our threads. I hear it's cold up there, but I would be 30% lighter so may be an option in the future.
 
Facts about qualifications? You haven't pointed out any.
I'm pointing out facts about being 'fully qualified'. There is no such thing.
I will give you an example of what pointing out a fact about qualifications is. Please see attached qualification requirements to join a scheme. These are the facts regards qualifications which you seem to be confused about in that you seem to think there is no standard of required qualifications/experience. Those "optional requirements that are not qualifications,
These schemes take on those who've done a 6 day course and you're using them as a benchmark? Lol.
Are a list of qualifications and competencies required to join the trade which you are insisting don't exist. They do. For a person in the uk if they want to know how to become an electrician they would refer to these requirements in order to map out how they can enter the trade. You paint a picture of chaos and indecipherable standards, it simply is not the case the standars are right before you and you are saying they do not exist. For anyone reading this thread who gets the feeling that there is no way to work out how to qualify for entry into the trade, read the attached pdf and you WILL be able to see what is required. Don't listen to unfounded statements that there are no standards. I defy anyone to read the pdf and show me how there are no standards. Next I will go into JIB standard entry requirements and gold card entry qualifications. In order to demonstrate there are very specific requirements for entry into work in the UK as an electrician for those who do not understand the structure of the UK requiements.
No actually you're conflating joining a scheme with being 'qualified'. They're not the same things at all and these schemes are NOT an authority although you obviously seem to think they are.

There is no such thing as 'fully qualified' here in the UK. It's not really an argument it's a fact. Until we get standards enshrined in LAW and not just what groups of private scheme providers say then these facts don't change.

Not sure what you're arguing against but it's certainly not what i've been saying in this thread so it seems you're doing what's called 'strawmanning'.
 
That was true until very recently, but not since the 1st September 2021
True but you can bet your --- they won't be testing those on the books against that new benchmark for fairness, it'd lose them members and money so not a great benchmark but if they did look to do this I'd think better of them.
 
I was a director of a professional association for a number of years, it was a constant battle with the other board members to try and get an understanding between quality and quantity of members, eventually I won out and wrote the entrance exam to our Fellowship and started the process to become Chartered, that entailed lots of hoops to jump through, but the standards required assure competence.
 
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