Electrical2Go - Online Electrical Supplier
This official sponsor may provide discounts for members

Discuss Found during fault finding in the Commercial Electrical Advice area at ElectriciansForums.net

Welcome to ElectriciansForums.net - The American Electrical Advice Forum
Head straight to the main forums to chat by click here:  American Electrical Advice Forum

Hi guys just wanted to ask if there are any Irish electricians here that can tell me whether these examples of making off SWA are accepted in Ireland.
Just had to fault find a light not working in a garden and opened up a couple of manholes to find PVC 4x4 waterproof boxes with SWA going into them through PVC glands with 90% of the outer core cut away the remaining steel connected to the earth of the multi core inner cable.
This was wired by an Irish company for a customer in Scotland.
I spoke to the electrician that wired it and he was of the opinion that that is the way they work in Ireland and the niceic are ok with it.
Some feedback would be appreciated.
Thanks

IMG_20190902_144135.jpg

IMG_20190902_145746.jpgIMG_20190902_144636.jpg

IMG_20190902_142839.jpg
Post automatically merged:

Blue gel is to make the boxes waterproof but not all the boxes had it and some had less than half filled.
I never put the gel in it was the other electricians
 
Scolmore Electrical Products
This official sponsor may provide discounts for members

SparkyChick

Mod
Mentor
Arms
Esteemed
In my opinion, it's shoddy work and is not acceptable here. It's not an acceptable means of terminating SWA. There are methods of properly terminating the armour that do not involve a gland as such... this (like a BS951 earth clamp) is not one of them.
 

snowhead

-
Mentor
This was wired by an Irish company for a customer in Scotland.
I spoke to the electrician that wired it and he was of the opinion that that is the way they work in Ireland and the niceic are ok with it.
Some feedback would be appreciated.
Thanks
It doesn't matter whether it's the way they work in Ireland, they're working in Scotland so need to comply with regs and good practice appropriate there.
 

James

-
Mentor
Arms
Supporter
Esteemed
That is just horrible
Lazy
Not up to standards
If that’s the way he does it in Ireland it is still wrong, England, Scotland, Ireland and Timbuktu it is still WRONG.

I am certain there are loads of good Irish electricians, but he is not one of them

In my humble opinion.
 

Strima

-
Arms
Esteemed
I doubt the NICEIC would be happy with it as it more than likely goes against manufacturers instructions. Can you guarantee those strands of SWA would carry the fault current for the duration of the fault? Also using magic gel to get around crap workmanship is just ****.
 

Pete999

-
Arms
Esteemed
There is only 1 way to terminate SWA and that is the correct way using Industry standard glands and enclosures the ness you have shown is NOT the correct way the "Electrician" has reduced the size of the Armour to allow him to terminate the remaining strands of Steel into a normal connector, not the correct way to do it, are you sure he was actually an Electrician, cuz if he worked for me I would sack the villain, Oh and I'm not Irish either.
 

davesparks

-
Mentor
Arms
Esteemed
No that method is not acceptable, I've seen different variations on that theme with some people bringing a few strands through a normal SWA gland, they are all incorrect.
Post automatically merged:

There is only 1 way to terminate SWA and that is the correct way using Industry standard glands
That's not strictly true, there are different types of glands and methods of terminating SWA. Apart from the standard glands there are various hazardous area glands, top hat glands for the larger sizes or specialist lamppost glands. Then there's range of heatshrink based terminations for specialist applications andof course cast resin terminations.
 
Last edited:

Sintra

Admin
Supporter
It doesn't matter whether it's the way they work in Ireland, they're working in Scotland so need to comply with regs and good practice appropriate there.
I can assure that’s not the way it’s done in either the Northern Ireland or the Republic of Ireland.
That is just horrible
Lazy
Not up to standards
If that’s the way he does it in Ireland it is still wrong, England, Scotland, Ireland and Timbuktu it is still WRONG.

I am certain there are loads of good Irish electricians, but he is not one of them

In my humble opinion.
It’s a bodge and that’s that. It would not be acceptable in any part of Ireland.
 

Risteard

-
Arms
Esteemed
It's not allowed in Ireland.

I'm registered with both RECI and the NICEIC and neither of them would accept or tolerate this. RECI (the Irish Regulatory Body) would record a breach of the Wiring Rules if they came across this during an inspection, and the contractor would be made to rectify it and provide evidence of the rectification (or have an additional inspection at cost to them at RECI's discretion).
 

davesparks

-
Mentor
Arms
Esteemed
Maybe they are getting confused with split concentric?

On another note what's with the insulation colours in that SWA? How long has it been available with brown, blue and G/Y and does that actually comply with the British standard?
 

Risteard

-
Arms
Esteemed
Maybe they are getting confused with split concentric?

On another note what's with the insulation colours in that SWA? How long has it been available with brown, blue and G/Y and does that actually comply with the British standard?
It's common to have those colours in the south of Ireland.

What you need to remember is that remarking conductors of different colours is a prohibited practice under the ETCI National Rules for Electrical Installations. So three core SWAs are available in single phase colours. (From memory it needs to be 7-core or more to be allowed to remark the conductors.)
 
No that method is not acceptable, I've seen different variations on that theme with some people bringing a few strands through a normal SWA gland, they are all incorrect.
Post automatically merged:



That's not strictly true, there are different types of glands and methods of terminating SWA. Apart from the standard glands there are various hazardous area glands, top hat glands for the larger sizes or specialist lamppost glands. Then there's range of heatshrink based terminations for specialist applications andof course cast resin terminations.
do you have links for these other glands? i have seen the tophat style before but for 33kV i believe. the others ones when i searched didnt really show me much more than standard gland packs.
 

Strima

-
Arms
Esteemed
On another note what's with the insulation colours in that SWA? How long has it been available with brown, blue and G/Y and does that actually comply with the British standard?
Had some of that on a job a few years ago, the customer specced it so we had to source it from our suppliers, TBH it did cost a few quid more as not many people use it. Still standard SWA with the relevant BS number.
 

davesparks

-
Mentor
Arms
Esteemed
It's common to have those colours in the south of Ireland.

What you need to remember is that remarking conductors of different colours is a prohibited practice under the ETCI National Rules for Electrical Installations. So three core SWAs are available in single phase colours.
That must get pretty annoying then, do you have to order specific combinations of core colours to suit every cable run? If you need to run L, S/L, N and E do you have to use cable with two browns in it?

How do you deal with multicore cables for controls or multiple circuits? For example where its not possible to install conduit/trunking I use 12 core SWA to take 6 circuits to a standard stage lighting bar, 19 core for a 8 circuits etc, would this not be allowed and you have to run seperate cables?
 

Risteard

-
Arms
Esteemed
That must get pretty annoying then, do you have to order specific combinations of core colours to suit every cable run? If you need to run L, S/L, N and E do you have to use cable with two browns in it?

How do you deal with multicore cables for controls or multiple circuits? For example where its not possible to install conduit/trunking I use 12 core SWA to take 6 circuits to a standard stage lighting bar, 19 core for a 8 circuits etc, would this not be allowed and you have to run seperate cables?
As for your first question you could use brown, black, blue and green/yellow, with heatshrink sleeving on the black (assuming this is on L1 or L of a single phase supply) of brown.

As mentioned RE: 12 core SWA etc. that cables of 7 cores and greater are exempted from this Rule.
 

Sintra

Admin
Supporter
Another cable always used in Ireland is pvc/pvc twin brown for switch drops and strappers etc. rather than using a T&E and sleeving the blue. I’ve never really understood why it is not readily available in mainland GB.
 

buzzlightyear

-
Arms
Esteemed
pvc/pvc twin brown for switch drops
It depens on the wholesalers if they sell it or. and the price .my whole salers would frown if you ask for that in is place you got what you are given.
Post automatically merged:

Wait till we are out of EU ,red is the new brown.
 

davesparks

-
Mentor
Arms
Esteemed
do you have links for these other glands? i have seen the tophat style before but for 33kV i believe. the others ones when i searched didnt really show me much more than standard gland packs.
Top hat glands will be supplied with some switchgear for the biggest sizes of cables.

Various street lighting equipment is available, such as this cutout
normal_GBH-Street-Lighting-Cut-Out.jpg
 
Another cable always used in Ireland is pvc/pvc twin brown for switch drops and strappers etc. rather than using a T&E and sleeving the blue. I’ve never really understood why it is not readily available in mainland GB.
what do your use for 3 core and earth? ie unswitched, switched and neutral
Post automatically merged:

Top hat glands will be supplied with some switchgear for the biggest sizes of cables.

Various street lighting equipment is available, such as this cutout
View attachment 51872
ah, so the ones for lamppost cutouts are just smaller top hats?
 

Des 56

-
Arms
Esteemed
Another cable always used in Ireland is pvc/pvc twin brown for switch drops and strappers etc. rather than using a T&E and sleeving the blue. I’ve never really understood why it is not readily available in mainland GB.
I have heard that comment made quite a few times over the years
Not sure if there may be a regional aspect to its availability :confused:,though I doubt it very much

I personally have installed thousands of metres of twin brown over the years,I have never found a problem sourcing it locally
Its been the minority of occasions when I have used Brown/Blue with over sleeving and never because Brown/Brown was not available
 
Scolmore Electrical Products
This official sponsor may provide discounts for members

Reply to Found during fault finding in the Commercial Electrical Advice area at ElectriciansForums.net

Top Bottom