Help Required on a new/addition to a circuit

[bf2k]

Hi all

I've recently qualified as a domestic electrician (hopefully going to leave the bore of an office 9 till 5 job soon). A family member has asked me to put some power & lighting to an outdoor "bar" area. It is fully weather proof and would only require standard IP20 fittings. However, I suggested that we took a new feed from his consumer unit (rewireable fuses - BS1361 cartridge fuses) out to a new 2 way sub consumer unit in his garage and split the feed into power and lighting. He's not keen in ripping all his floorboards up and having to replace everything. He's asked if we could possible utilise the existing power feeds going into his garage at the moment. When I did a survey of them a previous electrician has extended the first floor ring main to a FCU in the garage.

My question is, is it acceptable to extend the first floor ring from the feed into the garage and take it next door into the "bar" which will add a further 9 double socket outlets onto the ring (3 already on the first floor, each with an unfused spur) and take 3amp fused spurs from the ring to power the lighting? I've worked out in total they will be a maximum of 5 amps for the lighting. As far as I'm aware they isn't a problem with the number of sockets in the ring but its the use of FCU's on a ring main to power lighting.

I know it goes against everything you get taught on the courses but I can't find any references to tell me whether this is an acceptable setup or not. It would be a huge job to take a new feed out to the garage/bar from the Cons. Unit.

Thank you

 

[nickblake]

My answer would be no , sub main and new circuits , you stand a good chance of over loading the circuits with your idea ,think you need to rethink

Just to point out some confusion over the fuse you have mentioned, Rewirable fuses are BS3036 semi enclosed , the way to describe what they look like is dominos with coloured dots each colour indicating the current capacity , all this work would require RCD protection as it would have to be carried out to current regulations and would be notifiable

 

[chloebear]

Couple of questions for you:-
1. Is the garage attached or Detached from the rest of the building?
2. Is the Bar area attached or detached from the Garage?
3. What type of FCU has been used?
4. No mention of RCD's anywhere
5.

 

[Deleted member 9648]

Hi all

I've recently qualified as a domestic electrician (hopefully going to leave the bore of an office 9 till 5 job soon). A family member has asked me to put some power & lighting to an outdoor "bar" area. It is fully weather proof and would only require standard IP20 fittings. However, I suggested that we took a new feed from his consumer unit (rewireable fuses - BS1361 cartridge fuses) out to a new 2 way sub consumer unit in his garage and split the feed into power and lighting. He's not keen in ripping all his floorboards up and having to replace everything. He's asked if we could possible utilise the existing power feeds going into his garage at the moment. When I did a survey of them a previous electrician has extended the first floor ring main to a FCU in the garage.

My question is, is it acceptable to extend the first floor ring from the feed into the garageIt would only be acceptable to extend from the garage point if that point was wired on the ring,not as a spur. and take it next door into the "bar" which will add a further 9 double socket outlets onto the ring9 doubles to be added??What has he got in this bar that needs 18 outlets?? (3 already on the first floor, each with an unfused spur) and take 3amp fused spurs from the ring to power the lighting? I've worked out in total they will be a maximum of 5 amps for the lighting. As far as I'm aware they isn't a problem with the number of sockets in the ring but its the use of FCU's on a ring main to power lighting.No reason why an FCU from the ring cant supply lights

I know it goes against everything you get taught on the courses but I can't find any references to tell me whether this is an acceptable setup or not. It would be a huge job to take a new feed out to the garage/bar from the Cons. Unit.

Thank you

specific answers to your questions in red,but as the lads have said you need to consider the load and number of spurs on the existing circuit before deciding to add more load,and the provision of RCD protection. Also if you are adding lights and external socket outlets not directly attatched to the main building you will need to register the job with your LABC under part P.A new circuit from the CU would also need to be registered.

 

[WayneL]

Hi all

I've recently qualified as a domestic electrician

Really??

All that your questions have done for me is raise the issue of how effective these 'Domestic Electrician' courses are.

You're asking basic stuff that a first year apprentice would know - yet you're not asking anything important like earthing or 'bonding' requirements in this bar.

 

[Deleted member 9648]

Good point Mr L...........

 

[SirKit Breaker]

Shove a 3 core SWA cable in (work out the size). Henley block it, then run it out to your bar thingy and fit its own CU.
Just in case you are not familiar, to use a henly block you will have to put the supply tails into it and then reconnect existing CU and your new cable into it, you will need a switchfuse as well to fuse down to the rating of your SWA cable.

 

[bf2k]

First of all thanks to most of you all for your feedback.

To answer a chloebear's question

Couple of questions for you:-
1. Is the garage attached or Detached from the rest of the building? Detached
2. Is the Bar area attached or detached from the Garage? Detached
3. What type of FCU has been used? The current FCU in the garge is switched fitted with a 13amp fuse. the ones I proposed to use would be switched and fused accordingly
4. No mention of RCD's anywhere - I've made him aware that if I extend the ring then I need to change him over to RCBO's

I've made him aware that I will have to change the fuses for RCBO's (its a Wylex unit) if I extend the ring. I'd prefer to run a new feed to the garage and then distribute from there but I thought I'd ask if that was an acceptable setup. Like some have said I'm aware that it would be better to run a new feed.

FAO WayneL - I was asked questions about a possible circuit design that I haven't done before. Better to ask first when not 100% than kill someone

 

[Amp David]

Last time I tried to replace some old 1361 fuses with RCBOs couldn't get them to fit properly

 

[Amp David]

Really??

All that your questions have done for me is raise the issue of how effective these 'Domestic Electrician' courses are.

You're asking basic stuff that a first year apprentice would know - yet you're not asking anything important like earthing or 'bonding' requirements in this bar.

They're as much use aa a chocolate tea pot when its comes to doing it yourself as this post proves. Don't mean to offend the OP, but it seems like nowadays you go and look at a job and come onto a forum to ask how to get the job done right. Didn't this used to be done by actually learning how to do it by watching those that knew this stuff already and reading up on it?

 

[telectrix]

Last time I tried to replace some old 1361 fuses with RCBOs couldn't get them to fit properly

Lost your hammer then?

 

[nickblake]

Shove a 3 core SWA cable in (work out the size). Henley block it, then run it out to your bar thingy and fit its own CU.
Just in case you are not familiar, to use a henly block you will have to put the supply tails into it and then reconnect existing CU and your new cable into it, you will need a switchfuse as well to fuse down to the rating of your SWA cable.

just to add to this you will need a single isolator to isolate the complete isolation

 

[Amp David]

Lost your hammer then?

Had the hammer handy, was lookin for my trusty shoe horn