I’m an apprentice - electrocuted under my bosses supervision

[Jj16780]

Hi,

Apologies if this is in the wrong forum. I do have another account on here which I would imagine is not allowed by admins - this account will be deleted after this thread, I only made it as I do not want to be identified. If this is not ok please let me know.


I am an apprentice working for a largish electrical/mechanical firm.

We do large industrial jobs, schools, hospitals etc.

Working on a panel under supervision of the electrical supervisor/ following instructions of the supervisor we were lashing in temporary cables to feed a new panel, while we wait for the DNO to swap the mains from old to new.

We were pulling in single core 300mm2 cables to be paralleled (2 for each phase - 8in total)

My boss shut the power off and work began.

Shortly after getting the third cable in (2 had been done by us already) my arm accident lay touched the metal casing of the panel while my hand touched the busbars to feed the cable in.


Apparently this was still live. It threw me to the ground and felt like I was going to have a heart attack. Upon testing the phases these were all still live, even though my boss seemed to think he turned it off (he didn’t actually test, just switched it off and work commenced) I went home early because of this under my bosses instruction and my boss said to anyone who asked “he’s not feeling very well so he’s gone home”.


This man’s mistake nearly cost me my life - he is careless, evidenced by not only the above but other examples too. He rushes and makes mistakes, this is not who I would like to be taught from.

I am just wondering if anyone has had to deal with a situation like this before and what steps did you take going forward?

I do not want to work under this man but feel I don’t have a choice - I am in a household with one other including me. I am the only one working and cannot stop work as bills, rent etc still need to be paid regardless.


But I do genuinely feel if I continue working under this man something similar will happen to me again - and if not me someone else.

Thank you in advance for any replies and apologies it’s so long winded.

 

[davesparks]

First thing to do, if you haven't done it already, is go to a walk in centre or A&E and get yourself checked out. They will do an ECG and make sure there is nothing wrong.

 

[snowhead]

And report it to you Employer, their H.R / Health and Safety Dept / Rep if they have one, not your Supervisor.
It's an incident and needs investigating.

Also, not a dig at you, but always test and lock off anything you are working on or near, yourself, don't rely on anyone else saying it's safe.

 

[littlespark]

Well, basically you need to report him. He was the man in charge and should have tested before you worked on it.
It’s not your responsibility as a trainee to do this, whatever stage you are at in training.

Get it documented in the accident book. This is not a “near miss” situation. Ask for employers RIDDOR policy.


If it’s a fairly big firm, and not full of cliques, he will lose his job, not you.

Otherwise, there’s plenty WTABTAC solicitors that would love to take your case.

But as above, get checked out. Then it’s documented in an official sense with NHS


And Electrocution is execution by electricity.
If you’re still alive, then it’s a nasty shock.

 

[DPG]

This definitely needs reporting. You owe it to yourself and also to other employees.

And as Dave says, get yourself checked out medically. Not in your own time either. Get your HR dept. involved.

 

[timhoward]

It would be bad enough for someone to assume they have isolated it and work on it themselves, to put a trainee in that situation is frankly appalling.
You say "phases" - it sounds like it could have been a 400v shock which are often fatal so thank heavens you lived to tell the tale.
Follow the advice above - if nothing changes this could easily happen again. It's definitely an accident that is legally reportable.

 

[Jj16780]

I appreciate all the advice everyone. Sitting in my car, going to wad to a and e in about 5 mins.

Definitely learnt my lesson to not listen when someone says something is dead and to always check for yourself - given that it all goes well at a and e, I’m going to head to the company office (5 mins down the road from me) and request I personally speak to HR.

Will see where it goes from there.

Do you think it is also worth reporting to the builders we are currently subcontracted to Aswell? (Galiford try)

@timhoward you are correct. This was a three phase panel - with a current rating of 1600amps so I do wonder how I’m alive. Never thought I’d have to ask myself that but here we are.


Thanks again to everyone for all of your helpful advice. It really has been useful.

Thank you.

 

[davesparks]

You say you made contact with the metal cabinet and a busbar, if so the shock would have been to earth.

 

[Jj16780]

You say you made contact with the metal cabinet and a busbar, if so the shock would have been to earth.

yes, that is correct. My bicep area was touching the casing, my hand onto the bus bar. I suppose it didn’t go through any vital organs etc. Luckily.

 

[DPG]

yes, that is correct. My bicep area was touching the casing, my hand onto the bus bar. I suppose it didn’t go through any vital organs etc. Luckily.

Very lucky. Keep us posted with what happens.

 

[timhoward]

You say you made contact with the metal cabinet and a busbar, if so the shock would have been to earth.

I missed that. Still nasty!

 

[plugsandsparks]

Well, if you ever wonder how electrical workers get killed, here is a perfect example. The difference between the OP still being able to communicate and death or life changing injuries is miniscule.
Hope you get sorted out at A&E. Please though heed the advice, trust no-one when it comes to isolation. If you are not directly in charge of the lock off key and you are expected to work on "dead" equipment, check regularly. Fortunately i have not been in a situation where i could not control the environment so appreciate the difficulty this poses.

 

[Spaldingsparks]

Hi,

Apologies if this is in the wrong forum. I do have another account on here which I would imagine is not allowed by admins - this account will be deleted after this thread, I only made it as I do not want to be identified. If this is not ok please let me know.


I am an apprentice working for a largish electrical/mechanical firm.

We do large industrial jobs, schools, hospitals etc.

Working on a panel under supervision of the electrical supervisor/ following instructions of the supervisor we were lashing in temporary cables to feed a new panel, while we wait for the DNO to swap the mains from old to new.

We were pulling in single core 300mm2 cables to be paralleled (2 for each phase - 8in total)

My boss shut the power off and work began.

Shortly after getting the third cable in (2 had been done by us already) my arm accident lay touched the metal casing of the panel while my hand touched the busbars to feed the cable in.


Apparently this was still live. It threw me to the ground and felt like I was going to have a heart attack. Upon testing the phases these were all still live, even though my boss seemed to think he turned it off (he didn’t actually test, just switched it off and work commenced) I went home early because of this under my bosses instruction and my boss said to anyone who asked “he’s not feeling very well so he’s gone home”.


This man’s mistake nearly cost me my life - he is careless, evidenced by not only the above but other examples too. He rushes and makes mistakes, this is not who I would like to be taught from.

I am just wondering if anyone has had to deal with a situation like this before and what steps did you take going forward?

I do not want to work under this man but feel I don’t have a choice - I am in a household with one other including me. I am the only one working and cannot stop work as bills, rent etc still need to be paid regardless.


But I do genuinely feel if I continue working under this man something similar will happen to me again - and if not me someone else.

Thank you in advance for any replies and apologies it’s so long winded.

The only reason you are not seriously damaged or dead is that you only received a 230volt single phase live to earth shock if you had a 415-volt encounter between 2 phases you would have been cooked and the marrow within your bones would be destroyed a life-changing experience you must report this incident! Ihope you are ok you don't need wishing good luck as you have plenty of that already not many sparks get away as lightly as you have

 

[LukeD]

YOu received a bad electric shock ... Thank God you where Not "Electrocuted " as you would not be able to post due to either been dead or really messed up in A&E . Take legal advice . I was in a commercial property 30 years ago and a Father of a man who was Terribly Electrocuted was the first on scene attending to his son . I did not get to see much and honestly did not want to . He was really messy

 

[Martin davies]

Very lucky. Keep us posted with what happens.

Good luck with A+E and also with your employer there Is no place in this industry for incompetent people like him.
Stay safe and also ensure panels are dead before you

 

[MJPD29]

First things first get yourself checked out to make sure everything is OK and then it needs to be reported.
How things have changed. I had a couple of shocks under supervision too, once was on purpose. Although it seems serious now we laughed it off at the time. Times have changed for the better. Madess

 

[Fazz711]

Definitely accident book.
It reportable for riddor.
Make sure you get your meating with your EHS department and your HR.
You are very lucky so make sure nobody else needs that much luck in future

 

[DPG]

YOu received a bad electric shock ... Thank God you where Not "Electrocuted " as you would not be able to post due to either been dead or really messed up in A&E . Take legal advice . I was in a commercial property 30 years ago and a Father of a man who was Terribly Electrocuted was the first on scene attending to his son . I did not get to see much and honestly did not want to . He was really messy

It doesn't matter that the poor guy has incorrectly used the word 'electrocuted' . Semantics can wait until we know he's alright - he's probably still in shock.

 

[Dustydazzler]

100% needs reporting

I still shudder when I think about some of the stuff I was asked to do as a apprentice like working on live 3 phase boards etc

I was hoping by 2023 standards would have improved but reading this thread makes me shake my head

 

[plugsandsparks]

Please let us know how you got on at A&E, in terms of employer, it will be interesting to see how they deal with this. If all is as read, then i would expect the guy in charge to receive a written warning and sent for re-training. Quite frankly getting a belt off an adjacent cct when you are working say above a ceiling or other poorly maintained / installed installation is an everyday risk in the comm and industrial world BUT pulling heavy cables around an exposed busbar chamber is as about as obvious as it gets to prove and maintain isolation so i cannot imagine how anything other than negligence was at play here.
By all means PM me or other experienced members here for advice on a practical level how to protect yourself in an environment where you are not in control of what is being switched on and off.
An example where i have been a contractor on a large industrial site where the point of isolation was some distance from where i was working, i lacked confidence that my lock would not be tampered with so i not only locked off the isolator, i removed the fuses (and kept them in my toolbox) and removed the outgoing cables from the isolator, lol - call me paranoid but sometimes you just have that feeling that the danger level is too high..

 

[loz2754]

And Electrocution is execution by electricity.
If you’re still alive, then it’s a nasty shock.

you where Not "Electrocuted " as you would not be able to post due to either been dead or really messed up

It doesn't matter that the poor guy has incorrectly used the word 'electrocuted' . Semantics can wait

I always used to think "electrocuted" meant killed by electricity. And Collins and Cambridge dictionaries define it this way. Electrically executed.
Seems that Oxford have defined electrocuted as killed or seriously injured by electricity.

Either way, this was a serious incident that could have had fatal consequences, an incident that should never have happened, and steps need to be taken to ensure it never happens again. Whether in a workplace environment or somebody's home, electricity can kill or seriously injure.

 

[Intoelectrics]

I hope things check out in A&E and there is no lasting injury!

This a very serious incident!
At the very least you should report this to the relevant people. Ok the guy made a mistake he might even be a nice chap, but this is no excuse for being lazy and not testing properly and safe isolating prior to work commencing!!

You are very lucky and had a narrow escape. You have lived to tell the tale and from your experience you can now learn and also teach others on the importance of safe working.

People can get complacent especially so when they are doing the same thing over and over. He should have tested properly and also as good practice got you to test it yourself, as part of your training. All my apprentices (if competent to do so) are required to test and safely isolate and test again to confirm, then their supervisor tests also, and then they both sign the permits to work / method statements.

Good luck, and keep us posted on any outcome.

 

[Jj16780]

Thank you to everyone for all of your very helpful replies!

It all went okay luckily at a and e. The doctor did various tests and all turned back with good results. She explained to me that (as a lot of you have already stated) I was very lucky, it also helps because I am physically fit with no known ailments too.

I am going to arrange a meeting with HR to discuss what happened. Although I understand my supervisor has been doing this for 40+ years and obviously knows what he’s doing - this should never of happened. What if it was someone with an underlying condition? They could of easily died and I feel as though if it happened again to someone else I am responsible.


I do think I have learned a valuable lesson regarding safe isolation and to always check for yourself - albeit can be difficult when you are working under a supervisor who is very much “im right and you are wrong, even if I’m wrong I’m still right” if that makes any sense.



Thank you @Intoelectrics for the offer of help over pm! I do really appreciate it and I may well take you up on that!


I am certain there was some foul play - ie not following the risk assessment/rams correctly as my boss said to me immediately after “make sure you don’t tell anyone, no one can know, etc etc” which is worrying In it’s own right. Something I missed from the original post which i will also propose to HR.


As stated above, will update you all after I’ve had a meeting with HR regarding the next steps.

Thank you all again.

 

[littlespark]

Sounds like the guy will be back pedalling… denying saying/doing anything wrong.

Was there witnesses? Do you have burns on your skin? Other evidence?

 

[Jj16780]

Sounds like the guy will be back pedalling… denying saying/doing anything wrong.

Was there witnesses? Do you have burns on your skin? Other evidence?

This is exactly what I’m thinking he’s going g do..

My word - an apprentice working for the company for 5months vs a supervisor who’s been there with the company 30 years…

I have minor burns on my skin, which I have taken a picture of for “evidence” I also will have it documented with the NHS. I will speak with the college too - they may have someone who will help fight my corner.

Part of me says it’s not worth risking my apprenticeship over if it does not go in my favour, although I know that is wrong and I need to at-least try.

 

[Intoelectrics]

Thank you @Intoelectrics for the offer of help over pm! I do really appreciate it and I may well take you up on that!

You are welcome any time to PM for advice. Though for the record it was plugsandsparks who offered the help! (see below quoted)

plugsandsparks
"By all means PM me or other experienced members here for advice on a practical level how to protect yourself in an environment where you are not in control of what is being switched on and off."

 

[Intoelectrics]

This is exactly what I’m thinking he’s going g do..

My word - an apprentice working for the company for 5months vs a supervisor who’s been there with the company 30 years…

I have minor burns on my skin, which I have taken a picture of for “evidence” I also will have it documented with the NHS. I will speak with the college too - they may have someone who will help fight my corner.

Part of me says it’s not worth risking my apprenticeship over if it does not go in my favour, although I know that is wrong and I need to at-least try.

The very fact that he has all this experience and been with the company for so long makes it in some way worse, in that he has absolutely no excuse for this lack luster approach which potentially could have killed you or someone else!

Just because he is the supervisor doesn't automatically qualify him as always right, if you feel he is doing something you know or even think is wrong you should raise your concerns. And don't be afraid to raise this with the relevant people. Why should you lose your job? You have done nothing wrong! In fact technically speaking not reporting it is doing something wrong, and you could be reprimanded for that.

 

[timhoward]

Glad you're ok.

Part of me says it’s not worth risking my apprenticeship over if it does not go in my favour

Any vaguely reasonable company will be glad you have bought it to their attention, as having dead employees isn't in their interests!
As long as you go in with the mindset that you are there to inform them of a serious incident purely for the wellbeing of others and do it in a calm and measured manner I don't think you have anything to fear regarding the company in general.
It could obviously lead to a slightly strained relationship with the supervisor who asked you to keep your mouth shut. You could say it's going to be difficult trusting working under him again. Is he the only supervisor - maybe they could transfer you to work under someone else?

 

[ElectroChem]

Wow, quite a read.

Let me first wish you a speedy recovery from any injury you have taken, and reiterate the other advice you've received regarding reporting this incident as far up the chain as needed.

I've worked with apprentices under my instruction, in a very similar job to this as we were pulling new submains from a panel. Fortunately, we did properly isolate, test and lockout. Let me be clear, if something like this had happened on that job, I would have been in front of my boss having a very serious discussion about whether it was reasonable for me to still be employed by him. And during that discussion, I would have been thanking my lucky stars it wasn't across the desk from a prosecutor explaining what charges I was facing.

This is how seriously all the tradesmen who've answered you take this matter. We're not talking about people being scolded, or demoted, or even fired. These are events for which people go to prison. And if your supervisor doesn't take it that seriously, then he shouldn't be your supervisor, or anyone else's.

Okay, speech over. As you may be able to tell, this topic strikes a nerve with some of us. I'll just finish up by giving you the same words I give every trainee who comes into my company:

I want you to test everything. I want to see you test everything.
If I hand you a cable and say it's dead, I want you to test it.
If you just saw me isolate it, I still want you to test it.
Because one day I might be wrong.
And if that happens, I'll be very upset.
I might even go to prison.
But you'll be dead.

 

[LukeD]

Wow, quite a read.

Let me first wish you a speedy recovery from any injury you have taken, and reiterate the other advice you've received regarding reporting this incident as far up the chain as needed.

I've worked with apprentices under my instruction, in a very similar job to this as we were pulling new submains from a panel. Fortunately, we did properly isolate, test and lockout. Let me be clear, if something like this had happened on that job, I would have been in front of my boss having a very serious discussion about whether it was reasonable for me to still be employed by him. And during that discussion, I would have been thanking my lucky stars it wasn't across the desk from a prosecutor explaining what charges I was facing.

This is how seriously all the tradesmen who've answered you take this matter. We're not talking about people being scolded, or demoted, or even fired. These are events for which people go to prison. And if your supervisor doesn't take it that seriously, then he shouldn't be your supervisor, or anyone else's.

Okay, speech over. As you may be able to tell, this topic strikes a nerve with some of us. I'll just finish up by giving you the same words I give every trainee who comes into my company:

I want you to test everything. I want to see you test everything.
If I hand you a cable and say it's dead, I want you to test it.
If you just saw me isolate it, I still want you to test it.
Because one day I might be wrong.
And if that happens, I'll be very upset.
I might even go to prison.
But you'll be dead.

Good words....Same goes with weapons

 

[Intoelectrics]

I think the key thing to take from this bad experience is - always do a test yourself, regardless! as much as you may trust someone, they may for what ever reason make a mistake that you or someone else might pay for.

Especially when working on boards like this where there is potentially 400v and lots of exposed conductors. I always, try my tester on a known live source to ensure its working correctly, then at least twice test across all the Phases to each other, to Neutral and to Earth both before and after safe isolation. Those few extra minutes proving its safe could be the difference between life and death!

 

[Midwest]

Continue to speak with your HR, and don't concern yourselves with repercussions. You could suggest you are a 'whistle blower', that gives you rights under law.

Sound like this guy may have developed a cavalier attitude to safety over the years, wake up call for him, and he will probably thank you at a later time, and others that follow you.