Discuss 'Perlite' 250W PV panels: Any good? in the Solar PV Forum | Solar Panels Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

When i was receiving quotes for my install i was told to stay well clear of these, cheap and crap.

Not that I've ever heard of the panels either, but it's all very well for someone (e.g. your supplier) to say:

C annot
R ecommend
A
P
urchase

But it would be nice to hear why they are not recommended.

Unreliable?
Lower-than-stated output?
Some other reason?

Cheers,
F
 
I agree with FB. But thanks for the input, Furrypants.

The panels are approved for MCS etc, and have a full warranty including the usual output guarantees. I find that 'dont buy that Chinese crap' often means the mark-up is poor! :)

I always keep an open mind (but never so open that my brains fall out) so will listen to anyone who has real evidence, good or bad.

Further research is needed ...
 
Although there's a lot of "Don't buy Chinese", I have yet to see facts which prove or disprove that a MCS-certified (and often insured) panel made in China, is inferior on a cost-of-system-versus-output basis.

So, since my PV array is eligible for 43p FiT to compensate me for experimenting - the whole idea of FiT, no? - (assuming no further government attempts to move the goalposts), I thought that I'd try some Chinese-made panels <half-the-cost--per-panel-of-Sanyo> for myself and give genuine feedback on how well they perform, relative to expectations as per various solar estimation methodologies. I am known for being blunt; if the panels turn out to be crap, I'll name and shame.

My Chinese-panel complete system (inverter, roof mountings, cables etc) cost 3/4 what a similar-nominal-output Sanyo system would have done. So if I get at least 3/4 of the output that a Sanyo system gives, then I should be happy.

My system, according to SAP2009 should generate 3000kWh per year. That figure is a guideline, regardless of the type of panel or inverter used.
So if I paid 3/4 as much for a Chinese system, I can affored to only yield 2250kWh per year and I would still achieve the same percentage rate of return on my outlay, albeit a lower return in absolute £ terms - offset by an overall lower purchase cost.
 
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He was a reputable installer (did not go with him in the end). he said they where of very poor quility and said use anything but them. They did nor show a good return when put through PVsol either. I'm not averse to unknown panels as i have Linuo panels on my roof as recommended on here, very very happy with them.
 
OK.

They have an insurance underwritten warranty of ten years. Tolerance of -0% & +3% which is better than some of the original Sharp NU245's on both counts.

A little puzzled over the
"cell efficiency of up to 17.44% " Up to? so might be lower in normal conditions?
Not heard of them but there again I hadn't heard of lots panels two years ago either. I think there are far worse out there and IMO that includes Sharp (For quality)

As for this worry about Chinese panels it is fact that half of all solar cells come out of china. Germany fit more Chinese panels than any others including their own. So your probably fitting Chinese panels now anyway. If you want top notch on your roof fit Sanyo, end of. If you want competitive priced reasonable out put then they are all much the muchness. For piece of mind anything with a ten year warranty in my book is going to be OK.

I will give them a run on PVSOL and see how they compare with what we normally fit.


 
I thought Westech solar in oxfordshire were the uk stockist of perlight. up close they look like any mid range module, reasonably well made but not interesting enough to make me look at the data.
 
OK the Perlite PLM250M-60 does not appear on PVSOL and I've just updated it so I have a concern here but the PLM250/20 is on PVSOL and for a south facing, 30 degree pitch, Diehl Platinum 3800S inverter the resulting annual yield is just over 3,700 kWh. Norfolk Location. So not to bad really.

I do have a concern on them not being on PVSOL but that's not to say it isn't a database issue with PVSOL. I would suggest checking out the MCS certificate as well.
 
I do have a concern on them not being on PVSOL but that's not to say it isn't a database issue with PVSOL. I would suggest checking out the MCS certificate as well.

So, perhaps a good indicator of a worthwhile panel might be its presence on PVSOL?

Which panels are included in PVSOL - and what's good/bad?
I'm sure that readers might find that kind of basic info very interesting.

Cheers,
F
 
Thanks for your intelligent analyses, gentlemen.

Unless someone tells me the output is poor, or they are otherwise mis-described, I’m going to go ahead with the purchase, and will report in a few months.

I’m encouraged by the guarantee. Don’t forget that anything sold in the UK is covered by our very robust consumer-protection legislation.

For example, if the panels fail, or for example only produce 200W instead of 250W under ideal conditions, there is nothing to stop the whole lot being sent back to the UK seller with a demand for full refund, backed up by a small claims action if necessary (which is issued on line and costs under £100).

Sale of Goods Act 1979
Section 13. Sale by description.E+W+S+N.I.
(1)Where there is a contract for the sale of goods by description, there is an implied term that the goods will correspond with the description.

But buying say via EBay directly from Hong Kong would be a very different matter, and most definitely caveat emptor!
 
The other option from the same supplier is the Taiwanese Ubbink Delsolar 250W Panel:

Ubbink Delsolar 250W Mono Solar PV Panel - MCS Accredited

Same price and spec, but available only with silver frames.

Are they in the database?

Spec now changed: it will be 2 x 16-panel strings.

Total 2 x 4 kW. Two inverters, two phases.

Directly South facing, unshaded steel building, 15º roof pitch (maybe upped to 20º with rear spacers), South Norfolk, UK.
 
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Just checked on my software for you, and the ubbink 250 looks like it performs well (on paper) but it does not list the perlite 250 (but my software is 18 months old), but it does list the 235 which looks OK.
Due to the physics of how a PV cell works, unless you have the hybrids, like Sanyo, there is not that much real difference in panel performance, as long as the quality is good.
There are no physical moving parts in a PV panel, so as such, nothing to wear out.
Over 50% of panels installed worldwide are Chinese, so they can not be all bad.
My opinion, if you are happy to take a punt then go for it, would I sell an unknown panel to a customer? No I wouldn't.
I hope this helps.
 
Initial choice of inverters is the EverSol TL4600:

Solarexpo_grid tie inverter VDE_Solar PV inverter China OEM-EVER Solar

Does anyone know this model? Costs £1,350 + VAT

The panels will be series-wired in 16-unit arrays with an o/c voltage of approx 600Vdc, so they need an inverter that can handle this input voltage. It appears not many do, but this one goes up to 680V so should be OK.

The DC is being run over 100m from the barn roof to the house, on 10mm 4-core u/g SWA, so the higher the voltage the better, to minimise volt drop and energy loss.
 
Not so keen on Chinese Inverters though, and a 4600tl would be too small for 8KW and to big for 4KW.
Could you not use an SMA, maybe a waterproof one if needed, and fit the generation meter that end also.
I know people do, but I am not a fan of long DC runs, it is High voltage with no real protection, Your PV system will be no good to you if you end up dead.
 
So, perhaps a good indicator of a worthwhile panel might be its presence on PVSOL?

Which panels are included in PVSOL - and what's good/bad?
I'm sure that readers might find that kind of basic info very interesting.

Cheers,
F

I wouldn't see PVSOL as being particular over make or model in anyway shape or form and I certainly wouldn't use PVSOL as a guide to quality. It is a design tool, nothing more. Their database isn't made up of their preference. If you've seen PVSOL you would of seen the numbers of manufactures and panels on there.
 
The other option from the same supplier is the Taiwanese Ubbink Delsolar 250W Panel:

Ubbink Delsolar 250W Mono Solar PV Panel - MCS Accredited

Same price and spec, but available only with silver frames.

Are they in the database?

Spec now changed: it will be 2 x 16-panel strings.

Total 2 x 4 kW. Two inverters, two phases.

Directly South facing, unshaded steel building, 15º roof pitch (maybe upped to 20º with rear spacers), South Norfolk, UK.

Ubbink if was my option over the Perlite only because I do have knowledge of Ubbink product.
 
… Diehl Platinum 3800S inverter …

Hey, Mark, thanks for the inverter recommendation. Looks good. 780Vdc max so not stressed at 600-ish.

Price OK too. I’ll go for this one.

Speccing this kind of thing for the first time is a hassle: so many variables!

Does it matter if one slightly over-specs the inverter to allow for adding a few panels in the future? Especially as panels get cheaper. There is enough roof space and it seems a shame to waste it.

Not so keen on Chinese Inverters though, and a 4600tl would be too small for 8KW and to big for 4KW.
Could you not use an SMA, maybe a waterproof one if needed, and fit the generation meter that end also.
I know people do, but I am not a fan of long DC runs, it is High voltage with no real protection, Your PV system will be no good to you if you end up dead.

Yes, I know, but I will absolutely certainly end up dead anyway. But not quite yet! :)

It will be underground SWA with earthed armour.

I have 12kV overheads across my garden, on crappy old poles and within easy reach of my digger, forklift and sons’ kites etc. So some MV DC underground will complete the set. We do have a defibrillator in the cupboard, and my girlfriend might even like me enough not to forget to use it … :)

BTW, SMA inverters won’t handle the voltage.

I don’t want to have to buy half a ton of copper just to keep the voltage drop down, which I would if I run LV AC to the house, since there’s not a lot of point in expensively harvesting the sun’s energy just to heat the ground with hot wires :)

My opinion, if you are happy to take a punt then go for it, would I sell an unknown panel to a customer? No I wouldn't.
I hope this helps.
Yes, it’s great advice and makes much sense. Thanks.

I spend much of my time doing stuff in a non-standard way and saving money, and do virtually everything myself. That way I can live in a fantastic house I could not otherwise afford.
 
Initial choice of inverters is the EverSol TL4600:

Solarexpo_grid tie inverter VDE_Solar PV inverter China OEM-EVER Solar

Does anyone know this model? Costs £1,350 + VAT

The panels will be series-wired in 16-unit arrays with an o/c voltage of approx 600Vdc, so they need an inverter that can handle this input voltage. It appears not many do, but this one goes up to 680V so should be OK.

The DC is being run over 100m from the barn roof to the house, on 10mm 4-core u/g SWA, so the higher the voltage the better, to minimise volt drop and energy loss.

If my choice the Ubbink Delsolar D6M250B3A, 1 String of 16 panels on Diehl Platinum 3800S, South at 15degree pitch is just over 3,600kWh per year estimate. The Perlite on the same pitch (15degree) is 3,400kWh per year. Same inverter and I do rate the Diehl range. 10yr warranty as standard.
 
Does it matter if one slightly over-specs the inverter to allow for adding a few panels in the future? Especially as panels get cheaper. There is enough roof space and it seems a shame to waste it.

Any future change to the system will need a new notification. That will take you over the 4kW FIT rate so a lower tariff on the entire system not just the additional. Might not be worth doing. It would also require a G59 application as it could be over 4kw per phase. I would try and use as much of the generated energy as you can and conserve where possible as well. If you increase your usage of self generated energy you will increase the saving on purchased energy. I have a client who has saved over 75% on his electric bill by doing this.
 
If my choice the Ubbink Delsolar D6M250B3A, 1 String of 16 panels on Diehl Platinum 3800S, South at 15degree pitch is just over 3,600kWh per year estimate. The Perlite on the same pitch (15degree) is 3,400kWh per year. Same inverter and I do rate the Diehl range. 10yr warranty as standard.

Yup, I’m convinced and agree with you Mark.

Please check if a 20 degree pitch makes much difference. The higher Schletter brackets are expensive and may not be worth the bother. Although the self cleaning effect might also be better?

If you increase your usage of self generated energy you will increase the saving on purchased energy. I have a client who has saved over 75% on his electric bill by doing this.
Of course. And I believe the DNO pay for 50% of the generated energy whether you really export it or not. It’s crazy.

So it encourages intelligent use of the power to legally ‘defraud’ the DNO… Immersion heater goes on when the sun is shining, likewise washing machine, dishwasher etc. But only when there’s enough power available or it would be cheaper to use night rate instead. Care is required.

I wonder if anyone has considered charging a storage heater with any excess energy during a sunny day, then releasing it in the evening?
 
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OK, getting there. One final(?) point: My house is end-of line, with three houses supplied from one small pole transformer, 240/480 split-phase.

The voltage is often high, up to around 248V.

I have read that the SMA inverter over-voltage trips at 253V (ie 230V + 10%) so has lost peak revenue for people in a similar situation to mine.

Does anyone know what the Diehl does? The manufacturer's brochure states max o/p voltage as 230 +- 20% Does that really mean that it will produce 276V before tripping? (ie 552V between 180 degree-opposed phases on my split-phase installation with two inverters)

Presumably there’s a country-specific trip setting? I’ll call the supplier tomorrow to ask. Is there a UK regulation trip voltage? If it’s the assumed 230+10% I can see mine tripping whenever it tries to overcome the local, say 248V supply.

Is this a known problem? Presumably the DNO won’t care, since so long as they’re below 253V, they are legal. The fact a consumer can’t export when the local grid voltage is high is the consumer’s problem, not theirs.
 
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This might help you, look up voltage optimisation device (google) or voltage optimiser, basically, they regulate the incoming voltage to 220v.
I have not had much to do with them, but you seem quite clued up.
Also, I am sure you are aware you will need to get DNO approval if you go over 16amp (3.68KW is G83, basically fit system then tell the DNO what is installed) over this is G59,which means you have to get permission first.
 
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This might help you, look up voltage optimisation device (google) or voltage optimiser, basically, they regulate the incoming voltage to 220v. …

Thanks Earthstore. I looked up the ‘V-Phase’ unit.

But their web site states a lot of woo and I’m unconvinced. Is it trying to break the laws of physics? (In my experience, a rarely successful enterprise :) )

Surely if the voltage is dropped, the current increases? Or if not, the time taken to ‘do work’ increases. For example it takes a certain amount of energy to raise a litre of water in your kettle from room temp to boiling, whether the energy is supplied at 240V, 220V, 9V or by a bunch of candles.

Their site cites an example of a washing machine using less electricity at 220V rather than 240V. But these things are thermostatic. Surely it would take a little longer to complete the cycle?

I’m puzzled. Unless it’s a legal way of fiddling the DNO’s meter, which maybe runs slower at lower voltage (I know nothing of metering technology), but even then, it would run for longer as your kettle heated up. I just don’t get it.

Getting back on topic, I doubt it would be possible to ‘back feed’ PV via this device. And it looks like it is not connected to the incomer, but only to an individual final circuit, or circuits. The instruction video is strangely silent on the details.

Also, I am sure you are aware you will need to get DNO approval if you go over 16amp (3.68KW is G83, basically fit system then tell the DNO what is installed) over this is G59,which means you have to get permission first.

Yes, thanks. Due to private advice from a very helpful member of this forum yesterday, who I have now engaged as a consultant, I amended my notifiable 10kW commercial proposal to TWO non-notifiable 4kW installations; one per phase. I had no idea that you could just present the DNO with MULTIPLE 16A PV supplies on polyphase installations. It’s bloody marvellous. And also means it will easily be done and dusted by 3 March.

And no talking to the bureaucratic DNO: Yippee!

I’d better leave this addictive medium now and get the JCB out. I have a trench to dig! :)

*******************************
WHAT A GREAT FORUM: My amateur research here and elsewhere has stopped me making a major design and installation error, also missed by some professionals, which might have meant re-trenching, and scrapping wrongly-specified SWA.

Here’s something I learned which might help others: if installing PV on a rural site with higher than normal mains voltage, and the array is a long way from the incomer, THINK CAREFULLY: it may be best to run MV DC back to the incomer area on thinner armoured cable; do not put the inverters near to the array at the end of a long AC line, unless you use very high CSA AC cables, with all the attendant expense to avoid volt drop. Otherwise the inverter may drop out due to overvoltage on sunny days when the unit ramps up its own voltage to try to overcome an unusually high mains supply and shove it down thin copper all the way back to the incomer. Many people have had this problem worldwide.
*******************************
 
I fit the Perlight 250w Mono Blacks supplied from Buy PV Direct. I have had no problems with the panels as far. They seem to over produce when new. Construction is excellent and the price provided from But PV Direct can't be beaten.
 
Their application for trademark status in the US was just completed in 2011. I would be skeptical buying from a company so new in the U.S. market
Has anyone ever used these Chinese panels?:

Perlight 250W Mono Photovoltaic Solar Panel - Black Frame

Perlite PLM-250M-60 BLACK

I’m ordering 10kW on Monday unless anyone tells me of bad experiences!

£9,500 for 40 panels.

They are MCS accredited and have all the usual guarantees.

What do you think?
 

Reply to 'Perlite' 250W PV panels: Any good? in the Solar PV Forum | Solar Panels Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

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