Regulations for the use of trailing wires outdoors

[mattish2000]

Hello
I hope someone might be able to give us a solution to our problem. We are a canoe club and train on a Quay. We have been using 400watt metal halide (240V) on a portable masts, plug into a generator over the winter months for lighting at night.

We have just been informed that we can not do this due to the regulations on the use of 240v trailing wires in a public place, they need to be 110v. 110v Floodlights are alot more exspensive than 240v so we can't really afford this option.

Has anyone got an affordable alternative that will comply with regulations?

If more information is needed I will post it

Many Thanks for your help in advance

Matthew

 

[Steve1412]

The hazard of a trailing cable is a slip or trip so the voltage should be irrelevant. I would have thought if you made all efforts to control the risks there should not be a problem. Rubber matting covering all cables, notices warning of their presence and rcd protection on the supply should suffice. 230 volt flood fixed floodlights are allowed on site as far as I remember!!!

 

[mattish2000]

Hi Steve
This an extract from an e-mail I have been sent regarding the matter
"Just to reiterate, According to the IEE codes of practice 3rd edition, it states that that all outside equipment has to be IP rated, and any trailing leads have to be 110v"

Thanks
​

 

[telectrix]

if your genny haqs a 110v output, feed that to a trasnny at the bottom of the light pole, then your trailing leads are 110v. up the pole is not trailing.

 

[malcolmsanford]

That is the code of practice used for Portable appliances, unfortunatley I don't have a copy with me perhaps one of the PAT engineers on here may help you.

Is this the loacal council or naother body that as informed you of this?

 

[mattish2000]

That could work, it would just mean buying a transformer. We actually have 2 light poles so we would have to buy 2 transformers.
Thanks

 

[mattish2000]

Yes, it is the local council

 

[telectrix]

bloody jobsworths. i think malcolm hit the nail. 110v for portable equipment. the most hazard from trailing leads is tripping over them. as long as they are in good order and RCD protected, i see no reason for not using 230v. you can but rubber cable protectors which not only protect the cable, in a groove underneath, but also prevent trip hazards. ask the council suit to show you the regulation that prohibits 230v leads on fixed equipment. if you were to visit blackpool, you would find dozens of kiddie rides, outside shops etc.,all with trailing 230v leads.

 

[Adam W]

The code of practice mentions rcd (not more than 30mA) protection for equipment used outside (p25), and obviously it needs to be suitably IP rated, but I see no mention of a need for it to be 110v.
To my recollection you can even use 230v equipment on construction sites if the protective device operates within 0.2s.

 

[WDMDL]

Yes, the construction site section and in particular protection of socket outlets was discussed on my 2382 and it just happened to come up on my 2391.
You're allowed RLVS (110V), ADS with additional protection by 30mA RCD, electrical separation of each outlet, SELV / PELV.
The standard disconnection times apply, table 41.1

I can't find anything specific in the BRB about this situation but you could apply common sense from some related sections:

704 Construction Sites
704.52: Wiring Systems
704.522.8.10 Basically that rubber ramp strip that Telectrix mentioned
704.522.8.11 You need to use a suitable cable type. (Your lights may already have this type fitted)

551 Low Voltage Generating Sets
551.4.4 Additional requirements...where the installation and generating set are not permanently fixed
551.4.4.1 Protective conductor - the standard cable should comply.
551.4.4.2 In short, fit a 30mA RCD

Earth electrode for your generator...most generators are wired with the neutral connected to their chassis.
If one of your cables did get damaged such that the line conductor contacted earth, it would make the generator chassis and lamp stands live.

The solution could be a combination of the rubber cable protector and (if not already incorporated in the generator), a suitably rated enclosure with RCD and a couple of sockets.

Simon.

 

[mattish2000]

The solution could be a combination of the rubber cable protector and (if not already incorporated in the generator), a suitably rated enclosure with RCD and a couple of sockets.

Simon.

Thanks for the reply - so that solution is for use with 240v?

Matthew

 

[telectrix]

IMO your friendly council bloke is talking out of what he should be polishing his chair with. ask him to show you the regulation forbidding 230V trailing leads for fixed equipment, (as long as the trip hazards are minimised) . bet he can't.

 

[WDMDL]

Hi Matthew,
Like Telectrix said, get the bloke to quote a regulation, because it seems there isn't one.
It's a case of what do you define your setup as?
I'd define it as portable site lighting from a portable generator
Reg 551.4.4 relates to those and applies for 230V (It's not "240V" anymore, European harmonisation!)

I'd fit the cable protector anyway, look up Vulcascot type A. You can get it from RS, but it's quite common - same as they use for temporary traffic lights so it'll take more of a battering than your application will give it.

And if it is deemed that reg. 551.4.4 applies, you will need an arrangement similar to the one I described, plus some means of earthing the generator if required.

Simon.

 

[telectrix]

i should have also said as long as the cables are intact-- no damaged sheath, no botched joins etc.

 

[mattish2000]

IMO your friendly council bloke is talking out of what he should be polishing his chair with. ask him to show you the regulation forbidding 230V trailing leads for fixed equipment, (as long as the trip hazards are minimised) . bet he can't.

I am slightly reluctant in a way to do this because I do not want to upset him to the point where he goes out of his way to make life even more difficult. I am trying to come up with solutions with out directly telling him he is talking rubbish. I seem to be making some progress with the suggestion here.

Thank you
Matthew

 

[telectrix]

one thought i've just had. are the general public going to be tramping around these cables, or is it just you and your club members?

 

[mattish2000]

The cables run for about 2 meters from the generator to the light poles one on the left of the genni and one on the right. The chances are they will never get stood on because they run along side a metal railing, however the area is accessible to both the public and the club members (we are using them at night, so we do not see many people around as it is not an overly populated area) . Again however I think with this coming to light (sorry the pun) the new risk assessment we are going to carry out is going to have to include the addition of barriers around the affected area - which will obviously exclude the public.

 

[Adam W]

Obviously a lot of tact is required when dealing with this guy, after all, nobody likes to be called an officious jobsworth.
Is it possible that this is a council specific requirement? Like how some local authorities make spurious requirements like "all work must be carried out by an NICEIC registered contractor" (when we all know other competent persons schemes are available)?
It sounds like this is a case of trying to convince the guy in the office to let you use automatic disconnection of supply (via rcd) as additional protection rather than reduced low voltage (110v), which they seem to prefer.
It may also be worth mentioning in your method statement that the cables will be visually inspected before each use, like you would with an outdoor 230v childrens' ride.

 

[nickblake]

You could quote regulation 740 , which is basically fair grounds and amusment parks because you are outside in a pubic area you could well apply this reg ,Where trailing leads are in use if the cables are protected against mechanical damage and protected by an RCD then you have no problems in using 230 volts out side in the area ,regulation nos , for flood lighting is 740.55.1.4 , generators 740.551.8 ,cables740.521.1 ,and RCD 740.415.1

 

[mattish2000]

Hi All
Thanks for everything so far, its all been very helpful in my understanding of the situation and the ability for me to make/argue my points.
Do any of the regulations refer to the use of Electrical equipment near to water. Our current set up is on a quay side approximately 4meters above the waters surface.

Thanks
Matthew