Surely there must be a Reg against this?!

[SSE]

My neighbour has put up a large garage that sits alongside his house but not joined to it. He asked me to wire & fit out lights inside & sockets as well. Told him he needs to get SWA to supply it as he was insisting on runnning the supply in (save money I assume) & for some reason (mainly cos he's tight) he's went & put a plastic pipe from the house to the garage & run a 10mm twin & earth & a 10mm earth through it!! It looks rough as & to be honest I'm pretty annoyed as the cable was going to be run underground to in ducting to supply it. He's adamant he's leaving it like that unless he's breaking any rules! Anyone help?!?! If there's Reg that's not being complied with he'd have no option than to do it the way I said!

 

[Knobhead]

He's got the ulitmate option, tell you to swivel and get Joe from down the pub.

 

[UNG]

If you don't like it spit your dummy out and walk away

Other than that you don't say how far the garage is from the house if you have concerns then may be posting a picture would be more helpful in getting the right advice

 

[Deleted member 9648]

As long as there is adequate protection from sunlight...(in plastic pipe should be ok)....and adequate protection from mechanical damage I cant see a problem. Nowhere in Bs 7671 does it say the only cable that can be used externally is SWA.....Did he check the price of SWA?....would be surprised if it cost any more than what he's done TBH.
As above..........it will be your name on the rest of the install so if you are not happy with the supply arrangements walk away.

 

[monkeyelectric]

I recently done a job like this, guy ran all the cables himself and was so pleased with himself, he said it took him 3 days to dig the conduit in and thread the t+e down it, apparantly threading the cable was the hard part! Some people think this is a cheaper way of doing it for some stupid reason but each to there own, i just noted on the cert that cable was already in place if it ever got questioned which i doubt it would

 

[Farmelectrics]

its a rough design but not aware of any reqs hes broken

 

[HandySparks]

I guess my only concern would be if the plastic pipe filled up with water, which would be unlikely if both ends are inside but entirely possible if one or both ends are external. The T&E wouldn't be suitable for immersion. Otherwise, just note it on the cert (and invoice) as monkey says.

 

[SSE]

Apparently he's away offshore yesterday so I may just tell the wife it's against the regs to do it this way & that I'd have to do it the way I said. Like you guys have said, it's my name that's on it & the last thing I want is other sparkles thinking that I'm rough which I'm not! Does the SWA have to be further protected going down the side of the house or just cleated?

 

[telectrix]

can be cleated surface on brickwork, no prob.

 

[monkeyelectric]

Apparently he's away offshore yesterday so I may just tell the wife it's against the regs to do it this way & that I'd have to do it the way I said. Like you guys have said, it's my name that's on it & the last thing I want is other sparkles thinking that I'm rough which I'm not! Does the SWA have to be further protected going down the side of the house or just cleated?

what happens if he finds out its not against regs? he's your neighbour so you can't get away from him and you'll see him all the time, i know i wouldn't be very happy if someone done that to me, i would just do it the way he wants as its within regs and just note it on the cert. What makes you think other electricians will be round there looking at your work? surely if you do a good job you'll be his first choice for future work

 

[telectrix]

agree with monkey. just be sure to note on the cert. that your installation was installed using existing cable from house to garage, with the cable having been tested and readings entered on cert.

 

[Badged01]

Have to agree with the comments, doesnt seem to be against the regs provided the run of the conduit is support, cables sufficiently mechanically protected, sealed for water ingress etc ........ and of course that you find it suitable for the environment its being used in. (No kids gonna be swinging on it as Ive seen before!!) If you dont, then dont be putting your signature to any paperwork unless you caveat it to exclude the work already done.

 

[MDJ]

But how far is the garage from the house out of interest?

 

[Rockingit]

OP - I think you're barking up a tree that doesn't exist, tbh. If the cable is mechanically protected then it's fine, no matter how rough it looks or how much you wanted to go practice some SWA glanding. Lying to the client/s is a dispicable notion and is what's driving this industry to the dogs - don't do it.

The only thing you DO have to consider is the maximum loadings that can be applied using that combination of cable type so you can at least practice your voltage drop and adiabatic equations and get your tape measure out. Though, you don't need to bother with the adiabatic really as the regs have been satisfied with CPC CC.

You test the cable/s before energising and commissioning, you mark it as pre-installed on the sheet, and you move on.

 

[BlueToBits]

This sort of thing gives us a bad name. We can't call something non-compliant just because we don't like it or think we can do better. We have to be able to justify exactly why it is non-compliant and that means more than just getting a second opinion from someone on an Internet forum. If I was a customer who had paid out £1000s to dig up and re-lay my new drive because some electrician incorrectly said my overhead conduit was non-compliant, I'd be taking that electrician to court.

 

[amlu]

thats how they do it in in New World:[video=youtube;vJeJvk_0Exc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJeJvk_0Exc[/video]
skip the video to the end part, looks like twin and earth been buried there and no one bothers

 

[telectrix]

is that malcolm with his zimmer frame?

 

[SSE]

Thanks for the advice chaps. I spoke with the mans wife tonight & she informed me she'd rather there was no pipe going from between the house & the garage! Not wanting to cause them a huge hike in price, I suggested to her that I could run the SWA from the garage to inside the house loft (a distance of about 8m) & then just join it in a joint box (not the best I know but believe me a lot better than the visible pipe) throught to the house CU. She's more than happy with this she said. I think if I suggested this way in the first place her husband may have been OK with this, I think he just wasn't keen on a 25m run in SWA because of the price. It's not going to take half an hour to dig the trench & luckily for me my mate has a day off next week & says he'll do it for me (yes he's one of those that can't sit still on a day off unlike me!!). It wasn't even a 10mm T & E he ran in either it was a 6mm! Will still be fine though as it's just a ring & 4 strip lights & I'm sure there ain't going to be a massive voltage drop in a 25m run! Going to try & figure out how to post a picture on here as I took one earlier just to let you's see what he'd done.

 

[SSE]

Here's the picture. Not the worst you've seen I'm sure but I just wasn't wanting to put my name to it, where I live word spreads quick so something rough like this wouldn't do me any favours!

 

[GLENNSPARK]

can be cleated surface on brickwork, no prob.

aye but i dont like grey flat twins clipped on outside walls tel...uv light n all that lot....

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Here's the picture. Not the worst you've seen I'm sure but I just wasn't wanting to put my name to it, where I live word spreads quick so something rough like this wouldn't do me any favours!

hmm.....would`v been easier to just get a bit of armoured....and go method D with it...

 

[SSE]

hmm.....would`v been easier to just get a bit of armoured....and go method D with it...

Yeah I know but there was no telling him!! His wife has given me go ahead to run armoured from garage cu to inside property & put it in a joint box in attic then T&E to cu. It's not the best having to join it but going to have to compromise as they guy obviously doesn't want to spend much money. Least this way it will look tidy & I've not got people thinking I'm rough!

 

[GLENNSPARK]

well.....its your job gall.....so of course its your call.....
after all you will be responsible for certing this....
think i would avoid jointing onto some twin though with a throughbox (presumably)....
hmm......take `instruction` from his Mrs.......let her deal with `im when the time comes...lol....
at least you know it will be as it should be....in reality...

 

[SSE]

well.....its your job gall.....so of course its your call.....
after all you will be responsible for certing this....
think i would avoid jointing onto some twin though with a throughbox (presumably)....
hmm......take `instruction` from his Mrs.......let her deal with `im when the time comes...lol....
at least you know it will be as it should be....in reality...

Yes, maybe I'll just check the prices tomorrow as surely there can't be much of a difference between the price of what's already run in (6mm t+e and a 10mm earth) and 6mm SWA on it's own. I'm no certain but I'm pretty sure the price when I got 6mm SWA 3 core the other week it was around about £2.40 per metre.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

well is there any extranious in that garage?....
is it PME?
if so then the 10mm earthing will have to stay...

 

[Knobhead]

There's a very simple answer to this. If you don't want to put your name to it, walk away.

 

[Deleted member 9648]

Having seen the pic it would be interesting to know why you thought this doesn't comply with the regs Gallager.

 

[MDJ]

I'm more concerned about the trailing lead on the floor, the supply to the shed looks fine from the outside.

 

[Darkwood]

No one seems to have picked up on the conduit been plastic (electrical conduit assumed) isnt ideal for the environment its in namely that
in the summer sunlight it will heat up on one side quicker than the other and buckle and warp, this can nip/trap the cable.
Another point is white pipe unless stated lacks UV tolerance and will degrade and become brittle very quickly, its difficult to tell from pic how the conduit is attached at either end and how its sealed as you will find the rain will readily run down to the lower point along the conduit.

Ive just had a callout to the exact same thing a garden shed with a 20mm white pvc conduit from house which had warped and sliced into the very cable its supposed to protect also it was showing UV damage too to add to this, upon enquiry she told me the guys from B&Q did it for her when they took old shed away and fitted new one last year, no rcd protection etc etc need i say more!

 

[monkeyelectric]

That doesn't look too hideous, I was expecting far worse from the description, I would be reluctant to replace it if that's what the guy wanted, he's happy with it obviously, although it sounds like the boss his Mrs doesn't like it so that the end of it