Ufh

[yellowvanman]

Back in 2011 I was involved in the installation of electrics for a high spec conservatory. UFH was put in by a 3rd party and I refused to connect and sign off. At the time I discussed it with the supplier/installer and he told me 100s if not 1000s had been installed with no problems. In the end he had to get somebody else to travel down and connect up.

I've now returned to do an EICR and I'm still not happy with it.

Let me show you a photograph and would welcome comments.

Photo shows the cables feeding the mats coming out of 2 pattress (connectors only) and disappearing under the tiles.

There are 7 mats in total, split between 2 SFS (also in pictures). All controlled via a stat and some contactors.

 

[telectrix]

as my dogs would say........ RUFF, RUFF.

 

[davesparks]

A bit of a mess but what exactly is the problem we are supposed to be looking at?


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[yellowvanman]

A bit of a mess but what exactly is the problem we are supposed to be looking at?


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No earth screen on mats, as there is no earths following the brown and blues.

I think the cables you see are not double insulated.

 

[telectrix]

you mean not sheathed?

 

[yellowvanman]

you mean not sheathed?

Yes.

The mats are described as 'carbon foil' circuits, I would have thought there should have been some earth protection on them? Regs (753) says something about conductive covering grid. Then in the following paragraph I see something about Class II construction.

Can you get Class II UFH mats?

 

[davesparks]

No earth screen on mats, as there is no earths following the brown and blues.

I think the cables you see are not double insulated.

For a start you would need to confirm that they are unsheathed before commenting.

I have installed an underfloor system in the past which uses a thin film heating element which looks like a larger version of a mirror delisted pad. That had insulated and sheathed single core connecting cables in brown and blue and they were connected a a type of crimp which pierced the Matt to make the connection.

 

[yellowvanman]

For a start you would need to confirm that they are unsheathed before commenting.

I have installed an underfloor system in the past which uses a thin film heating element which looks like a larger version of a mirror delisted pad. That had insulated and sheathed single core connecting cables in brown and blue and they were connected a a type of crimp which pierced the Matt to make the connection.

Sound similar to what I saw being installed! So was it Class II?

I want to get my facts correct before I complete my EICR.

 

[snowhead]

This says 2 wire connection;

Under Wood Floor Heating Film Information | Carbon Heating Film | Divine Heat UK

 

[yellowvanman]

This says 2 wire connection;

Under Wood Floor Heating Film Information | Carbon Heating Film | Divine Heat UK

Thanks, so it must be Class II then.

 

[ruston]

I would have a look at 753.411.3.2 -to see if it applies to what you have.

 

[bigspark17]

Could you not class this as limitation and tested to isolator only.? Or do you cover all aplliances on your eicr inc showers/cookers/boilers/imersions/heaters ect....

 

[yellowvanman]

Could you not class this as limitation and tested to isolator only.? Or do you cover all aplliances on your eicr inc showers/cookers/boilers/imersions/heaters ect....

I don't usually cover general appliances in my EICRs, but some of the ones you listed above I do.

In this case I'm glad I've asked the question because I'm now looking at a few YOUTube films that show the cables are double insulated and there are various suppliers of this type of UFH mats!

 

[bigspark17]

Commendable that you are going to length on your eicr's. Out of intrest slightly off topic which appliances do you cover on your eicr's.?

 

[yellowvanman]

Commendable that you are going to length on your eicr's. Out of intrest slightly off topic which appliances do you cover on your eicr's.?

I don't specifically say they are included but usually make Zs measurements in the shower unit, on the immersion contacts and on appliances where its easy to access the connections. Will check insulation readings are OK (being careful not to stress with 500V) if appliances are on, but if they affect readings then I turn them off!

 

[dansk]

Those mats are normally class II if they have a polyester membrane over the top. Cold tails are usually double insulated. But be careful not all carbon film has a BS approval, there is quite a bit of imported stuff on the market, so without taking up the floor it will be hard to confirm.

The BS approved material is only class II when that polyester sheet is on the top.

 

[PEG]

I don't specifically say they are included but usually make Zs measurements in the shower unit, on the immersion contacts and on appliances where its easy to access the connections. Will check insulation readings are OK (being careful not to stress with 500V) if appliances are on, but if they affect readings then I turn them off!

I can hear the villagers gathering pitchforks...you may have to qualify that statement...ON/OFF or connected/disconnected?