When will you start back working following the lockdown

[snowhead]

As now with the lockdown and social distancing not everyone is following it to the letter, but the majority are and that's what matters.

Same thing when things restart, as long as the majority follow the guidance most of the time the spread will be limited.
If people have to work in groups, as long as the groups stay the same and not continually change then the risk of spread is limited.

 

[Midwest]

Don’t agree. Whilst I understand those that is a need to earn an income to survive, seems some don’t really understand how dangerous this virus is.

The CMO says we’ll only have an ‘exit strategy’ with a vaccine and medicines for treatment. And that’s a way off.

Masks only prevents the spread of infectious droplets from a person to others, it does not stop you getting infected. You may wish to read the procedure for removing a mask and how long one is effective. I can’t see any of that being followed on a building site.

So you go to work, get infected, and go home and pass it on.

I’m trying to be as cautious as I can.

 

[rapparee]

But people are people; staff have to work physically together, lifting things etc. Walking past each other in corridors, holding doors for others. Essential delivers still have to be made, and could be contaminated. And you should see the smoking shed, no 2 metre spacing there!

If you think you can return to work and able to comply with government guidance, you‘re misinformed, I’m afraid.

We actually built a new smoke hut to accommodate the people.

The bike shed was demolished to make way for it, but that's just a casualty of war.

 

[Vortigern]

Well I am being asked to continue/return to work on a mosque with other builders/trades who have continued working from a few weeks ago. I said I am not sure, as mid May seems to be the latest end of lockdown. But I see things are opening up again. I mean is the cure worse than the illness? I said I will consider the matter and talk next week about when to start back. To be honest I need the money. I have not jumped on the bandwagon with my cap out for freebees from the gov. I just don't know which way to jump on this. Besides I am enjoying the break and achieved a lot at home. Of course the other thing is the missus is now eying me up as the domestic worker. Think I would rather take my chances with coronovirus and work. I really don't know. I hope by next week guidance might change. At least the work before me I can work in pretty isolated work sites, which all inclines me to go and do some work.

 

[Midwest]

Well I am being asked to continue/return to work on a mosque with other builders/trades who have continued working from a few weeks ago. I said I am not sure, as mid May seems to be the latest end of lockdown. But I see things are opening up again. I mean is the cure worse than the illness? I said I will consider the matter and talk next week about when to start back. To be honest I need the money. I have not jumped on the bandwagon with my cap out for freebees from the gov. I just don't know which way to jump on this. Besides I am enjoying the break and achieved a lot at home. Of course the other thing is the missus is now eying me up as the domestic worker. Think I would rather take my chances with coronovirus and work. I really don't know. I hope by next week guidance might change. At least the work before me I can work in pretty isolated work sites, which all inclines me to go and do some work.

Working conditions have altered again for staff at my place, more stricter. As I’ve said before, it’s very difficult keeping to the social distancing guidance and carry out your work.

I understand how financially difficult it must be for you guys, I don’t envy you. As things move on with combating this virus, hopefully things will change for you.

 

[telectrix]

unfortunately they'll not change before my phone is cut off, van untaxed and uninsured. direct debits bounced by bank.

 

[Vortigern]

This is the thing @telectrix is the cure worse than the illness. Just been reading studies this morning that suggest there is no difference to infection rate whatever the strategy used. Also the death rate is reckoned per thousand as 1-2. On top of this there are no cases (according to this study) that people who are otherwise healthy died of coronovirus. They did however say the deaths that have occurred with pre-existing conditions while recorded as dying of coronovirus should be rephrased to dying with coronovirus, i.e. not necessarily being the cause of death but rather the final straw.
Given the effects on our economy and the micro economy in yours and mine and others circumstances, i.e. penury and debt etc. what the hell are we supposed to do? Hence I am seriously thinking of working. Albeit in isolated work environments. I feel for you tel and others who are in this place.

 

[Simon47]

I mean is the cure worse than the illness?

That point was raised in the BBC article I linked to a few posts back - scroll down to "How should we interpret the death toll?" about half way down the page and read from there. There's a telling bit that says :
And the tipping point, they say, is a 6.4% decline in the size of the economy - on a par with what happened following the 2008 financial crash.
It would see a loss of three months of life on average across the population because of factors such declining living standards and poorer health care.
I suspect that it won't be long, if we haven't passed it already, before we exceed that shrink in the economy. During the 2008 crash, things didn't stop as suddenly or on such a large scale as they have done recently.
EDIT: The problem with any strategy based on that argument is persuading some parts of the population that "yes, it really is in the best interests of the country as a whole and the people in it that we let this pandemic carry on at a high but manageable rate - and that does mean people will die".

And only last night on the telly, they were pointing out that the old & vulnerable are likely to be told to self isolate until at least September. That's a long time for someone to be stuck at home, bored and lonely without their usual social interactions. I know it won't be that long before my mum starts saying something along the lines of "to hell with that, I'm going shopping and if I catch it I catch it". At 87 she accepts that she's had a good innings, and is tending towards an attitude of "go out happy, not with a long but miserable life".

 

[Zerax]

And... I'm sure I read the other day about 50,000 avoidable cancer deaths caused by the NHS stopping testing/treatment whilst the virus is around ?
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And... aren't Sweden showing a similar infection rate/death rate to us ? but they don't have the draconian segregation/shutdown ??

I've long since argued that as a country, we place far too high a value on life...

 

[Midwest]

And... aren't Sweden showing a similar infection rate/death rate to us ? but they don't have the draconian segregation/shutdown ??

I've long since argued that as a country, we place far too high a value on life...

Only time will tell on that. Looked at some figures, and the US has 152 deaths to 1 million of population, where Sweden has 200 (due to CViD).

This is an interesting interpretation of events. Scroll down to ‘How confirmed cases of coronavirus has spread’.

Coronavirus: Tracking the global outbreak

Key maps and charts explaining how the respiratory virus has spread around the world and how it is being dealt with.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[littlespark]

I’ve been discussing this with my wife this morning.
If I was working in an empty property, on my own, and had all the materials so I don’t have to run off the wholesellers... fine. I would work.
Except my bread and butter is working in domestic, and a lot of my customers are over 70, or have health problems.

I was contacted last week about adding a few sockets on someone’s garage.... not in the house.... I told him I would do it, told him a price and he’s “thinking about it”

Also a job an hours drive away to run a SWA between 2 outbuildings.... waste of a trip when there’s other work to be done in the house itself.

A neighbour asked this morning if I could change their shower pull switch as it was stuck on..... again, told them a price and they’ve not come back.

I have other jobs to go back to, but it’s up to the individual customers.... and they don’t want anyone in the houses until lockdown is over..... whenever that may be

 

[Doomed]

COVID-19 Data Explorer

Explore global data on COVID-19.

ourworldindata.org

Check here for data without the 'spin'

 

[Vortigern]

So basically the data says the data cannot be relied upon...which begs the question why say anything. What is the point of spending no doubt thousands and thousands on a report that says it is not a report. Lies lies and damn corona statistics.

 

[Zerax]

Check here for data without the 'spin'

Not sure I'd read too much into those figures... for example Vietnam has not declared any deaths due to Covid-19 ??

Also... how do we know if someone dies solely because of Covid-19 or they happened to have had the virus when they died.

I think the only sensible way to understand the toll is to look at the increase in the 'normal' death rate... although this will include people that have died of other causes, but were not treated due to the Covid-19 distraction.

There is no easy way...

 

[mattg4321]

This is worth a watch

click here

 

[sparksfly]

Well its paperwork for me at the mo ....I am so behind. I have carried out the odd urgent domestic job, with full PPE preferring to self-isolate gloves, wash them and reuse....however, If my masks run out I'll have to double up on scarfs, neck gaiters or adapt pants on my face!!
When do I go back ?....when the phone starts ringing of course

 

[Sisyphus]

I never stopped working ~S~

 

[littlespark]

I’m going to look at a job this morning. Work in a garage for sockets and lights. I don’t know yet if there’s power already and if there’s an rcd present. There is further work to do in the house, but that can wait.

Looks like Dan has been tampering again with the forum... always improving but it looks like I’ve lost my “smiley face wearing mask” avatar.. Back to my coffee cup




Ice cream vans going round the streets. Essential worker?

Discuss

 

[davesparks]

Ice cream vans going round the streets. Essential worker?

Discuss

There is still no restriction on non-essential workers.
Whilst an ice cream van doesn't appear to be a sensible thing at the moment, it is technically a takeaway food service I guess and as long as people stand 2m apart in the queue it could be safe.

 

[Andy78]

There is still no restriction on non-essential workers.
Whilst an ice cream van doesn't appear to be a sensible thing at the moment, it is technically a takeaway food service I guess and as long as people stand 2m apart in the queue it could be safe.

Any takeaway service is not allowed to take orders at the counter. All orders should be remotely arranged ie by telephone. Same goes for any wholesalers offering collection services.

 

[telectrix]

but, keeping things in perspective. up to date corona related deaths total approx. 0.3% of the population of the UK. whilst all deaths are tragic, for the victims and their families, it's statistically a small %.

 

[Andy78]

but, keeping things in perspective. up to date corona related deaths total approx. 0.3% of the population of the UK. whilst all deaths are tragic, for the victims and their families, it's statistically a small %.

To provide more perspective, the 0.3% figure only represents deaths we know about and only deaths so far.
It does not include deaths of people who were not tested which are thought to be many thousands.
It does not include deaths of people affected by other factors such as lack of available care from a stretched NHS.
Two weeks ago the weekly death toll of all deaths in England and Wales was double its usual level, 3000 deaths in that week were excessive to normal levels but not attributed to covid-19.

It is likely to be years before the true figures are known. After China relaxed preventative measures and reassessed their data, their total death toll jumped by 50%

The govt initially said if they could keep total deaths to fewer than 20k they would have succeeded, so the govt strategy has already failed spectacularly.

 

[Sisyphus]

'essential' was a nefarious term from day one, simply dependent on whomever was in need or asked.

relief , especially for the smallest of sm biz (SBA qualifies 500 and less as small) was a joke.

i applied for it all.....there was simply no way for small hand to mouth biz to stay alive with what was offered

now we are allowed to operate by degree, but the fact are materials and suppliers have been compromised, to the point where nothing is a 'sure thing'

Anecdotally, most of my biz will now be businesses changing hands , escapees setting up camp

But the bottom line is an entire economy does not turn on/off like the many switches we install, thus the market heads down the road to perdition.

If any of us were an airline or bank we'd be livin' large , but if you're a little guy , go google the sm biz projections for the next year , it ain't pretty

good luck

~S~

 

[davesparks]

but, keeping things in perspective. up to date corona related deaths total approx. 0.3% of the population of the UK. whilst all deaths are tragic, for the victims and their families, it's statistically a small %.

Expressing it as a percentage of the population of the UK is misleading, it implies that the rate of deaths is much lower than it is.
You need to express the number of deaths as a percentage of the number of cases of coronavirus, this will give a more accurate representation.

You could accurately say a fraction of a percent of the population of the UK die from asbestosis, this makes it sound far better than when you say 100% of people with asbestosis ultimately die from it.
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Any takeaway service is not allowed to take orders at the counter. All orders should be remotely arranged ie by telephone. Same goes for any wholesalers offering collection services.

I didn't know that bit, in which case the ice cream van isn't complying

 

[Andy78]

I didn't know that bit, in which case the ice cream van isn't complying

I've just re read the guidance from govt (reason is the missus works in a takeaway at the moment) and it's more vague than I quoted to be honest.

It's worded "should only be taking telephone orders" but that's geared up for premises to stop crowding. And as ever it's only guidance.
A bit like the heights for sockets complies with part M but is not the only way to comply I suppose.

 

[littlespark]

A little detail of the ice cream van in question...

There were 2 occupants, the driver/server and a passenger. When stopped the passenger, wearing a mask, apron and gloves, got out and managed the queue. Which was a queue of one when I saw them. I couldn't tell if the server had a mask on, but I think blue food grade gloves are normal anyway.
I can only assume the driver and passenger are from the same household.

Personally, I am a little biased against ice cream vans.
When I was running the wifes familys caravan park, we had a van come round. He had come in, asked permission, and when he'd done his round, would stop outside the office and let us have something.
Another van turned up one day, stepping on the regular guys turf, and the pair of them had a massive barney in the carpark...

After that we started stocking ice creams in reception, and told both of them not to come back

 

[Andy78]

A little detail of the ice cream van in question...

There were 2 occupants, the driver/server and a passenger. When stopped the passenger, wearing a mask, apron and gloves, got out and managed the queue. Which was a queue of one when I saw them. I couldn't tell if the server had a mask on, but I think blue food grade gloves are normal anyway.
I can only assume the driver and passenger are from the same household.

Personally, I am a little biased against ice cream vans.
When I was running the wifes familys caravan park, we had a van come round. He had come in, asked permission, and when he'd done his round, would stop outside the office and let us have something.
Another van turned up one day, stepping on the regular guys turf, and the pair of them had a massive barney in the carpark...

After that we started stocking ice creams in reception, and told both of them not to come back

Another ice cream man trying to scoop another's patch ? How dairy ?
I can understand them being territorial on a caravan park as you could make plenty of lolly, especially on a sundae.
Let's hope after the argument none of them felt bad enough to top themselves.

I thank you.

And I apologise.

I'm here all week. And probably the next few months.

 

[telectrix]

Another ice cream man trying to scoop another's patch ? How dairy ?
I can understand them being territorial on a caravan park as you could make plenty of lolly, especially on a sundae.
Let's hope after the argument none of them felt bad enough to top themselves.

I thank you.

And I apologise.

I'm here all week. And probably the next few months.

suppose it was something like:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8e1xvyTdBZI

 

[7029 dave]

I am confused.com
Some of the takeaways around here are still open, over the counter stuff too.

 

[Andy78]

I am confused.com
Some of the takeaways around here are still open, over the counter stuff too.

Here is the guidance. It got updated 27/04. I don't know exactly which parts were revised on that date.

Reducing the spread of respiratory infections, including COVID-19, in the workplace

Public health principles for reducing the spread of respiratory infections, including COVID-19, in the workplace.

www.gov.uk

 

[Midwest]

Funnyly enough, I've heard the ice cream van circling round my estate today. I remember reading about one guy that had several vans, but had temporarily closed down his business, cos of COViD19.

Guess everyone is not following the guidance. Like some here are being tempted (because of financial hardship) of returning to work.

 

[Vortigern]

Yes @Midwest I am thinking of going back to work in the next week or so. It has been arranged I can work on my own. But I must say there are still a few guys on site plastering and rendering and doing carpentry and have been throughout. I guess my door to van, van to site, site to van, van to home again surely can't be a risk, gulp! I suppose I could be wrong.

 

[Midwest]

Yes @Midwest I am thinking of going back to work in the next week or so. It has been arranged I can work on my own. But I must say there are still a few guys on site plastering and rendering and doing carpentry and have been throughout. I guess my door to van, van to site, site to van, van to home again surely can't be a risk, gulp! I suppose I could be wrong.

I don’t envy you guys, as I said before.

Ive not stopped working, deemed an essential worker. However, from my experience working in a large premises, it’s almost impossible to follow social distancing guidelines. I expect the likes of Amazon or Tesco warehouses will be the same.

On a smaller scale, guess you can be more selective. But you should still follow the guidance.

 

[123]

but, keeping things in perspective. up to date corona related deaths total approx. 0.3% of the population of the UK. whilst all deaths are tragic, for the victims and their families, it's statistically a small %.

It's hopefully not going to be anywhere near 0.3% of the population, that would be almost 200,000

 

[telectrix]

It's hopefully not going to be anywhere near 0.3% of the population, that would be almost 200,000

i missed a 0 out. meant 0.03%

 

[Vortigern]

I have tried to take a careful look at .gov advice/instructions and it seems it is ok to go to work. Especially regarding construction industries and of course within that electricians. I looked at the attached guidance and advice on .gov web site and I conclude it is ok to go to work what say you all? It refers you to the following doc.

 

[davesparks]

I have tried to take a careful look at .gov advice/instructions and it seems it is ok to go to work. Especially regarding construction industries and of course within that electricians. I looked at the attached guidance and advice on .gov web site and I conclude it is ok to go to work what say you all?

Going to work has always been allowed where it is not possible to do the work from home, as long as you, or anyone you live with, don't have any symptoms of the disease

Working in peoples homes has been a bit of a tricky one, it's technically allowed but nobody really wants to, or wants people to.

 

[Midwest]

Working in peoples homes has been a bit of a tricky one, it's technically allowed but nobody really wants to, or wants people to.

Only for essential maintenance or repairs.

 

[Vortigern]

but .gov advice says it's ok to work on normal things given no one is ill and two metre rule observed with hand washing and bacterial gel etc.

 

[davesparks]

Only for essential maintenance or repairs.

I'm sure that's changed again, it was allowed in previous guidance. I downloaded the guidance a few weeks ago.

It's refusing to let me upload and image but it says that:
Work carried out in people’s homes, for example by tradespeople carrying out repairs and maintenance,
can continue, provided that the tradesperson is well and has no symptoms. Again, it will be important to
ensure that Public Health England guidelines, including maintaining a 2 metre distance from any household
occupants, are followed to ensure everyone’s safety.
No work should be carried out in any household which is isolating or where an individual is being shielded,
unless it is to remedy a direct risk to the safety of the household, such as emergency plumbing or repairs,
and where the tradesperson is willing to do so. In such cases, Public Health England can provide advice to
tradespeople and households.
No work should be carried out by a tradesperson who has coronavirus symptoms, however mild.
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but .gov advice says it's ok to work on normal things given no one is ill and two metre rule observed with hand washing and bacterial gel etc.

That depends on where you look, there is guidance on one part of the site that says work can continue in people's homes, with repairs and maintainence given as an example of work that might be done in people's homes.
On anothe rpart of the site it says that only emergency repairs can be carried out in people's homes.