Glow-worm 18hxi intermittent fault

[legoman]

Hi, Got a Glow-worm 18hxi boiler (6yrs old) with an intermittent fault.
Cuts out with F1 or F4 code message. Sometimes runs for several days with no problem, then cuts out once or twice same day. Regularly serviced by our local plumber (also fitted it) but he cannot find the problem. Had the burner door seals renewed/condensate drain/gas pressure/flue checked with no problems found. Contacted a local boiler specialist who thought it could be the old style ignition electrode. He fitted a new one but it did not solve the problem.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated

Thanks

 

[Spark1979]

Possibly the igniter unit supplying the ignition electrode they often have intermittent faults

 

[guest119]

What does your manual say for these codes?

Boydy

http://freeboilermanuals.com/Glowworm_1.htm

 

[Spark1979]

The fault code f1 is an ignition fault and f4 is a flame failure whilst lit

 

[legoman]

F1 code says Ignition fault, no gas, insufficient gas, gas valve adjustment, electrode ignition lead or igniter + connections defective and air inlet duct. All of these have been checked I believe.
F4 code says as F1

 

[legoman]

Boiler follows correct start up sequence. It has locked out after a few hours/days even. It will start immediately on reset.

 

[Megavolt]

Gas valve or pcb more then likly.

 

[chris murphy]

Hi, Got a Glow-worm 18hxi boiler (6yrs old) with an intermittent fault.
Cuts out with F1 or F4 code message. Sometimes runs for several days with no problem, then cuts out once or twice same day. Regularly serviced by our local plumber (also fitted it) but he cannot find the problem. Had the burner door seals renewed/condensate drain/gas pressure/flue checked with no problems found. Contacted a local boiler specialist who thought it could be the old style ignition electrode. He fitted a new one but it did not solve the problem.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated

Thanks

"Hello legoman",


As You have had your Boiler looked at by 2 Heating Engineers and the Fault code identified problems have been investigated and attempts have been made to rectify these to no avail I would strongly suggest that You contact Glow Worm Boilers and at least discuss these facts with their Technical department - or get your Boiler Installer to speak to them.

If as I suspect they state that in light of your Engineers attempts to address the Fault Code issues to no avail a Glow Worm Engineers visit is definitely required I would strongly advise You to arrange and pay for this as their Boiler Engineers are obviously `Experts` on Glow Worm Boilers.

And if they are actually working direct for Glow Worm they will have no desire / motive for changing and charging for multiple different parts to try and find the problem - as unfortunately some Independent `Boiler Engineers` do - I don`t mean the Engineers that You have used up to now.

However if You mention the Fault codes and what has already been tried etc. when you are booking a Glow Worm Boiler Engineers visit they might arrive with various other parts that could be associated with the sequences leading to the creation the Fault codes and they would be able to try replacing some associated components.

What You have described sounds to Me as if it could be an intermittent Gas Valve problem - OR an intermittent Electronics problem which somehow is producing `False Fault Codes` - BUT - I am NOT an expert on Glow Worm Boilers and I have not installed one for over 10 Years as I favour other manufacturers Boilers.

As the Fault are intermittent it is obviously very awkward if the Fault does NOT display at the time of their visit - BUT You should write out some Notes listing everything that You have observed about the Boiler Faults - and what your 2 Heating Engineers have done to try and fix the problems - that should help a Manufacturers Boiler Engineer with diagnosing possible causes even if they are not in evidence at that time.



I hope that You do take up my suggestion and go to Glow Worm and arrange an Engineers visit - after all the Manufacturers Boiler Engineer MUST be able to diagnose and solve the problem - how can they NOT !

They should have the attitude that they can diagnose and solve ANY Fault - even from a good description - although most Faults are confirmed by actually electrically testing components and finding them to be Faulty at the time - so if a malfunction is NOT displaying at the time it could be impossible to be sure of the cause.

Regards,


Chris

 

[applemac]

i have the same problem with my glowworm 30 cxi.
i reset it and it clears.
have you found the fault yet?
first time it happened i had to cut back and determinate the fly lead that powers the ignitor as it was very corroded and about to snap.
i use to get many faults with this boiler mostly blocked heat exchangers and broken diverter valve.
hope yours gets sorted.

 

[legoman]

applemac.

I have not found the fault yet. Took Chris's advice and phoned Glow-worm. Spoke to very helpful guy (Piers) but was told he will only explain possible solutions to gas engineer. I had a problem with blocked H/E few years ago (leak in C/H pipework) Had H/E cleaned OK.
Annoying thing about my problem is, I can go several days with no faults showing, and then get 3 in a day!
When the guy checking my boiler comes back to me, I am going to ring Glow-worm and ask them to offer their advice to him. Will post if this is a success.

 

[applemac]

applemac.

I have not found the fault yet. Took Chris's advice and phoned Glow-worm. Spoke to very helpful guy (Piers) but was told he will only explain possible solutions to gas engineer. I had a problem with blocked H/E few years ago (leak in C/H pipework) Had H/E cleaned OK.
Annoying thing about my problem is, I can go several days with no faults showing, and then get 3 in a day!
When the guy checking my boiler comes back to me, I am going to ring Glow-worm and ask them to offer their advice to him. Will post if this is a success.

That at would be great mate, I also get a rumble- slight booming noise?

 

[legoman]

That at would be great mate, I also get a rumble- slight booming noise?

Could be your boiler kettling

 

[Spark1979]

Be a different fault code if boiler was kettling as the over heat stat would trip it wouldnt shiw an ignition fault

 

[chris murphy]

applemac.

I have not found the fault yet. Took Chris's advice and phoned Glow-worm. Spoke to very helpful guy (Piers) but was told he will only explain possible solutions to gas engineer. I had a problem with blocked H/E few years ago (leak in C/H pipework) Had H/E cleaned OK.
Annoying thing about my problem is, I can go several days with no faults showing, and then get 3 in a day!
When the guy checking my boiler comes back to me, I am going to ring Glow-worm and ask them to offer their advice to him. Will post if this is a success.

"Hello again legoman",

I was fairly sure that the Glow Worm technical department would state `We will only give technical advice to a Gas Safe registered Gas Engineer` - but I thought that they might state from your descriptions that one of their Boiler Engineers would need to attend to your Boiler in which case You would have been the person who had to arrange that.

I hope that when your Heating / Boiler Engineer speaks to them they can advise on how to rectify the faults without too much expense regarding replacing parts.

It may still come down to arranging and paying for a Glow Worm Boiler Engineer to visit as they would be `Duty Bound` to be able to diagnose and rectify the fault / faults - and while at your Home if necessary they could talk through their findings with their Technical Department as they carry out various tests on the Boiler components - this should enable them to resolve matters.

BUT - IF no Faults were displaying on that visit because of the intermittent nature of the faults that obviously would complicate matters unless the descriptions from You and your Heating Engineer enabled the Boiler Engineer to know what had been happening to cause the problems.


Good Luck with getting your Boiler sorted out.

Regards,

Chris

 

[chris murphy]

"Hello legoman",

Did You manage to get your Boiler sorted out ?

I would be interested in what was found to be at fault ?

Regards,

Chris

 

[legoman]

Chris.
No I have not. My boiler specialist came a week ago and while he was there I rang Glow-worm Tech support and we tried adjusting some of the settings IE-gas pressure, %CO etc to optimal.
Before this I had run for 12 days with no faults....maybe I should have forgotten about it, because since it was "tweaked" it has tripped at least once every day!
I spoke again to Glow-worm this week and they said "there could be a problem with the igniter unit" or if not it may be the PCB. I can buy an igniter unit for £30.00 but I'm not really sure what to do. Every time my boiler specialist comes, it is costing me. I am tempted to "bite the bullet" and get a new boiler fitted...something like an Ideal Logic with a 5 year warranty.

Whatever happens I will ask my B/S what he changed on Glow-worms advice and let you know if you wish.

Also, just to be sure I had National Grid round to check the meter. The guy said there were no problems re-water in the gas and the gas pressure was fine. He fitted a new regulator as my old one was a bit tatty.

 

[Geordie Spark]

The days when you could fit and forget a boiler for the next 20 years are over.

Now you buy a boiler which comes with a nice five year warranty and in the sixth year it becomes Life Expired - or as we in the trade say Donald Ducked.

 

[chris murphy]

Chris.
No I have not. My boiler specialist came a week ago and while he was there I rang Glow-worm Tech support and we tried adjusting some of the settings IE-gas pressure, %CO etc to optimal.
Before this I had run for 12 days with no faults....maybe I should have forgotten about it, because since it was "tweaked" it has tripped at least once every day!
I spoke again to Glow-worm this week and they said "there could be a problem with the igniter unit" or if not it may be the PCB. I can buy an igniter unit for £30.00 but I'm not really sure what to do. Every time my boiler specialist comes, it is costing me. I am tempted to "bite the bullet" and get a new boiler fitted...something like an Ideal Logic with a 5 year warranty.

Whatever happens I will ask my B/S what he changed on Glow-worms advice and let you know if you wish.

Also, just to be sure I had National Grid round to check the meter. The guy said there were no problems re-water in the gas and the gas pressure was fine. He fitted a new regulator as my old one was a bit tatty.

"Hello legoman",

Thanks for the update - Sorry to hear that You are still having problems despite technical advice from Glow-worm.

I would still advise finding out the cost of a Glow-worm Boiler Engineers visit and possibly replacing the PCB - before having a new Boiler installed.


I am not doubting the skill and knowledge of your Boiler specialist in any way but in your position I would want to put this onto Glow-worm - as I mentioned before how can they NOT be able to rectify the fault ?

Even if they had to visit more than once because of needing a part they the Engineer did not have on the first visit how could they justify any excessively High labour charges - but please confirm the charges for more than one visit if You do speak to them.


I would speak to Glow-worm again yourself - the Servicing & Repairs / Engineers visits department.


I would tell them that You would like to have your Boiler repaired by them because You do NOT want to hire an Independent Gas Engineer / Boiler Repair Company as You have heard about them sometimes not knowing what is faulty and then changing PCB`s / multiple parts to TRY and solve the problem when the part was not faulty - a `Trial & Error` method of Boiler Repair.

You want Glow-worm to GUARANTEE that they as the Manufacturer will repair the fault on your Boiler - without changing / charging for multiple parts to `narrow down` the faulty component.

As the Manufacturers Engineers I feel that they have an obligation to repair your Boiler in a correct / cost effective manner - any `Trial & Error` changing of parts which are then found to NOT rectify the fault should be non chargeable to You [at least the parts].

I would tell them at the time of booking the Engineers visit that you have had a Boiler Engineer follow some suggestions from their technical department - but now that this has NOT solved the problem and obviously He cannot try changing various parts because You would have to pay for them - whereas a Glow-worm Engineer would possibly have the facility to try replacing parts to see if they solved the problem without charging You if they subsequently had to remove them again.

You now want their Engineer to use their specialist expertise of their Boiler / probable access to spare parts at the time of His visit to diagnose and rectify the problem.


I hope that You do manage to get your Boiler repaired - I would be very interested in the outcome if You could put an update on here.


Regards,


Chris

 

[chris murphy]

"Hello legoman",

Thanks for the update - Sorry to hear that You are still having problems despite technical advice from Glow-worm.

I would still advise finding out the cost of a Glow-worm Boiler Engineers visit and possibly replacing the PCB - before having a new Boiler installed.


I am not doubting the skill and knowledge of your Boiler specialist in any way but in your position I would want to put this onto Glow-worm - as I mentioned before how can they NOT be able to rectify the fault ?

Even if they had to visit more than once because of needing a part they the Engineer did not have on the first visit how could they justify any excessively High labour charges - but please confirm the charges for more than one visit if You do speak to them.


I would speak to Glow-worm again yourself - the Servicing & Repairs / Engineers visits department.


I would tell them that You would like to have your Boiler repaired by them because You do NOT want to hire an Independent Gas Engineer / Boiler Repair Company as You have heard about them sometimes not knowing what is faulty and then changing PCB`s / multiple parts to TRY and solve the problem when the part was not faulty - a `Trial & Error` method of Boiler Repair.

You want Glow-worm to GUARANTEE that they as the Manufacturer will repair the fault on your Boiler - without changing / charging for multiple parts to `narrow down` the faulty component.

As the Manufacturers Engineers I feel that they have an obligation to repair your Boiler in a correct / cost effective manner - any `Trial & Error` changing of parts which are then found to NOT rectify the fault should be non chargeable to You [at least the parts].

I would tell them at the time of booking the Engineers visit that you have had a Boiler Engineer follow some suggestions from their technical department - but now that this has NOT solved the problem and obviously He cannot try changing various parts because You would have to pay for them - whereas a Glow-worm Engineer would possibly have the facility to try replacing parts to see if they solved the problem without charging You if they subsequently had to remove them again.

You now want their Engineer to use their specialist expertise of their Boiler / probable access to spare parts at the time of His visit to diagnose and rectify the problem.


I hope that You do manage to get your Boiler repaired - I would be very interested in the outcome if You could put an update on here.


Regards,


Chris

"Hello Legoman",


I hope that You don`t think that I am pestering You - I wondered what happened about getting the fault on your Boiler rectified ?

It is always interesting to Me to find out the causes of Intermittent faults and for the OP`s to post them on here because the result may help someone else in the future.

I hope that You have managed to get it sorted out - could You let Us know what happened Please.

Regards,

Chris

 

[legoman]

"Hello Legoman",


I hope that You don`t think that I am pestering You - I wondered what happened about getting the fault on your Boiler rectified ?

It is always interesting to Me to find out the causes of Intermittent faults and for the OP`s to post them on here because the result may help someone else in the future.

I hope that You have managed to get it sorted out - could You let Us know what happened Please.

Regards,

Chris

Chris,

No problem.
I have not done anything as of yet.


After optimising my settings through the Glow-worm tech dept, the boiler tripped at least once a day. Something I then did (14th Mar), was to put a small piece of tape across the bottom section of my Flue. I read this on another board some time ago, and thought I'd give it a try. All my settings were adjusted to optimal before this so, not sure if it is making a difference. The weird part of all this is, since I last posted, my boiler has only tripped once.

My B/S suggested I ring him after my hols and gave me a price to change my old boiler.

The thing is, I have solar panels with a control switch to my immersion heater which I put together, that allows me to turn my boiler off from now until the end of October as far as hot water is concerned...unless we have a spell of exceptionally dull weather so, I may just leave things as they are for now.

Hope this helps
Will update if there are any changes or I swap boiler.

 

[chris murphy]

Chris,

No problem.
I have not done anything as of yet.


After optimising my settings through the Glow-worm tech dept, the boiler tripped at least once a day. Something I then did (14th Mar), was to put a small piece of tape across the bottom section of my Flue. I read this on another board some time ago, and thought I'd give it a try. All my settings were adjusted to optimal before this so, not sure if it is making a difference. The weird part of all this is, since I last posted, my boiler has only tripped once.

My B/S suggested I ring him after my hols and gave me a price to change my old boiler.

The thing is, I have solar panels with a control switch to my immersion heater which I put together, that allows me to turn my boiler off from now until the end of October as far as hot water is concerned...unless we have a spell of exceptionally dull weather so, I may just leave things as they are for now.

Hope this helps
Will update if there are any changes or I swap boiler.

"Hello again Legoman",

Thanks for your reply.



I would be VERY interested in what You have read about putting Tape across the bottom of the Boiler Flue - do you mean across the Combustion gases outlet - ?

Some Boilers do have `restrictors` fitted to the Fanned flue / Fan outlet but these are fitted at the installation stage and supplied with the Boiler specifically designed / sized to do the job.

With regard to using Tape to restrict the Flue-way - unless done briefly [and NOT left in place] by a Gas Engineer to `Test` the Flue operation - as You an imagine as a Gas Engineer I have to strongly warn against doing this or I would not be behaving professionally.



I do hope that You can get the problem solved or a new Boiler installed - I know what You mean about not needing it for Heating from now to perhaps October so You will have plenty of time to decide.

Regards,

Chris

 

[legoman]

​

"Hello again Legoman",

Thanks for your reply.



I would be VERY interested in what You have read about putting Tape across the bottom of the Boiler Flue - do you mean across the Combustion gases outlet - ?

Some Boilers do have `restrictors` fitted to the Fanned flue / Fan outlet but these are fitted at the installation stage and supplied with the Boiler specifically designed / sized to do the job.

With regard to using Tape to restrict the Flue-way - unless done briefly [and NOT left in place] by a Gas Engineer to `Test` the Flue operation - as You an imagine as a Gas Engineer I have to strongly warn against doing this or I would not be behaving professionally.



I do hope that You can get the problem solved or a new Boiler installed - I know what You mean about not needing it for Heating from now to perhaps October so You will have plenty of time to decide.

Regards,

Chris

Chris,

Here is the quote (or very similar)

"I have now resolved the problem, without your help. I spoke to Glow-worm where the technician said it was a PCB fault so I ordered and fitted a new board (very expensive as well) - which made no difference, so I contacted them again and a different technician said it must be a mixture fault, there must be air getting in via the seal on the combustion chamber. I made a new temporary seal with some small rubber tubing I have - this made no difference.

I then tried partially blocking the air inlet to the fan and the boiler lit! I am waiting for my local plumber to return and check the combustion CO2 level; in the mean time the boiler is working fine with less than a 0.5 square inch of tape blocking part of the air intake.

As for my temporary seal, I can't detect any hot exhaust escaping anywhere around the seal, but I will replace it with the proper seal."

 

[applemac]

my f4 f1 fault has been better since i replaced to crumbling gasket £10 for the ignitor ! thing it had a problem lighting up but has been great since.

problem with glowworm f4 is that it covers to many faults and hard to track down.

 

[davesparks]

Someone took it upon themselves to make an alteration to the intake of air to their boiler, sounds like another nail in the coffin for common sense to me.

 

[chris murphy]

​

Chris,

Here is the quote (or very similar)

"I have now resolved the problem, without your help. I spoke to Glow-worm where the technician said it was a PCB fault so I ordered and fitted a new board (very expensive as well) - which made no difference, so I contacted them again and a different technician said it must be a mixture fault, there must be air getting in via the seal on the combustion chamber. I made a new temporary seal with some small rubber tubing I have - this made no difference.

I then tried partially blocking the air inlet to the fan and the boiler lit! I am waiting for my local plumber to return and check the combustion CO2 level; in the mean time the boiler is working fine with less than a 0.5 square inch of tape blocking part of the air intake.

As for my temporary seal, I can't detect any hot exhaust escaping anywhere around the seal, but I will replace it with the proper seal."

"Hello again Legoman",

Thanks for your reply.

As You will appreciate I cannot agree / advise that anyone restricts the Air Intake of a Fanned Flue Boiler Flue assembly in any way.

I cannot imagine that on any Boiler an `Incorrect Air / Gas combustion mixture` problem could ever be solved by restricting the Air Intake on the Fanned Flue with Tape.

And also despite a Room Sealed Combustion Chamber seal having deteriorated and allowing a small amount of Air in I strongly doubt that the `Additional Air` would disrupt the `Air / Gas combustion mixture`.

When the Person who You quoted then fitted a temporary `Seal` and this did NOT solve the supposed `Additional Air` problem that should not have been directing Him to restrict the Fanned Flue Air Intake just because that is where the Combustion Air comes from.

I should let You know this point - although the Air that is drawn into a Fanned Flue Boiler is primarily for Combustion - having the correct volume of Air drawn in also helps to ensure that the Combustion Chamber internally and items adjacent to it do not get overheated.



As I mentioned I cannot advise You to leave the Boiler Flue restricted in any way - I have written My comments above to try and convince You to remove the Tape to ensure the Safe operation of your Boiler - But You must make the decision.

I hope that My comments have been of some help.

Regards,

Chris

 

[legoman]

"Hello again Legoman",

Thanks for your reply.

As You will appreciate I cannot agree / advise that anyone restricts the Air Intake of a Fanned Flue Boiler Flue assembly in any way.

I cannot imagine that on any Boiler an `Incorrect Air / Gas combustion mixture` problem could ever be solved by restricting the Air Intake on the Fanned Flue with Tape.

And also despite a Room Sealed Combustion Chamber seal having deteriorated and allowing a small amount of Air in I strongly doubt that the `Additional Air` would disrupt the `Air / Gas combustion mixture`.

When the Person who You quoted then fitted a temporary `Seal` and this did NOT solve the supposed `Additional Air` problem that should not have been directing Him to restrict the Fanned Flue Air Intake just because that is where the Combustion Air comes from.

I should let You know this point - although the Air that is drawn into a Fanned Flue Boiler is primarily for Combustion - having the correct volume of Air drawn in also helps to ensure that the Combustion Chamber internally and items adjacent to it do not get overheated.



As I mentioned I cannot advise You to leave the Boiler Flue restricted in any way - I have written My comments above to try and convince You to remove the Tape to ensure the Safe operation of your Boiler - But You must make the decision.

I hope that My comments have been of some help.

Regards,

Chris

Fair comment Chris.

I took it off yesterday.........still working up to now!

Will update when/if boiler cuts out again.

 

[legoman]

Update.

After speaking to Glow-worm earlier this year and after explaining the work/checks I had done I was told it would probably be 1 of 3 things.

The Spark electrode Part No 801637 ( I had this replaced earlier in the year)
The Zig ignitor Part No 801655
PCB Part No 2000802731

Looking at the price of the other 2 items I decided to replace the boiler...but not until Sept as I do not use any gas in the Summer months.

In May I spotted a Zig Ignitor (sealed in the bag) going for £13.00 on fleabay, and decided to buy it.
In June I also saw a PCB (new and unopened) going for £61.00 and bought that also.

I decided to get the Ignitor fitted 1st and if the problem was still there, fit the PCB
The Ignitor was fitted in early August.

For the 1st couple of weeks I had 2/3 trips showing F1 fault and mentioned it to my plumber, saying, I would probably have the PCB fitted before the cold weather arrived.

But, after the 2/3 initial trips, I have run the boiler almost every day for the last 3 months with not 1 trip/problem...how good is that:smile5:

I still have the PCB , but will keep it JIC.:82:

 

[chris murphy]

Update.

After speaking to Glow-worm earlier this year and after explaining the work/checks I had done I was told it would probably be 1 of 3 things.

The Spark electrode Part No 801637 ( I had this replaced earlier in the year)
The Zig ignitor Part No 801655
PCB Part No 2000802731

Looking at the price of the other 2 items I decided to replace the boiler...but not until Sept as I do not use any gas in the Summer months.

In May I spotted a Zig Ignitor (sealed in the bag) going for £13.00 on fleabay, and decided to buy it.
In June I also saw a PCB (new and unopened) going for £61.00 and bought that also.

I decided to get the Ignitor fitted 1st and if the problem was still there, fit the PCB
The Ignitor was fitted in early August.

For the 1st couple of weeks I had 2/3 trips showing F1 fault and mentioned it to my plumber, saying, I would probably have the PCB fitted before the cold weather arrived.

But, after the 2/3 initial trips, I have run the boiler almost every day for the last 3 months with not 1 trip/problem...how good is that:smile5:

I still have the PCB , but will keep it JIC.:82:

"Hello legoman",

Thanks for posting the update on your Boiler`s intermittent problem.

I had wondered earlier in the Year / towards October - November what had happened to identify and resolve the problem.


Although I think that I remember that your Boiler is 6 or 7 Years old it is obviously better to have it now working correctly for the cost of replacing the Igniter than to have been `forced` to replace the Boiler - although I can understand and sympathise with the frustration that You would have been feeling when the malfunction had happened so often.

It is tempting to think `Get rid of it` - and You would probably have been able to replace your Boiler for a `reasonable price` as You already know a Heating Engineer / Gas Installer.


But many other people would have to engage a Company from the Yellow Pages or British Gas - British Gas would probably charge somewhere between £2800 and £3400 for a Combi Boiler that I could buy for less than a £1000 !

Using Glow Worm as an example - a Glow Worm Ultracom2 CXI HE Combi Boiler - with a Hot Water Flow rate of 14.6 Litres per minute [Water Mains Flow rate at Combi dependant].


Good Luck for the Winter - I hope that You now have a long period of `Fault Free` Heating and Hot Water.


"Happy Christmas and a Great New Year"


to You and your Family and to all of the Members of the Forum.


Regards,

Chris