Government backs mandatory EICR's every 5 years for landlords.

[Michaelwgroves]

Long overdue............................

The Government has backed introducing a mandatory requirement on landlords with properties in England to ensure that electrical installations in their property are inspected every five years.

However, it has not provided a start date.

Such a proposal has been recommended by several working groups of industry bodies, the most recent at the end of last year.

Housing Secretary James Brokenshire yesterday announced plans for the mandatory checks to be introduced alongside the launch of a separate consultation on building regulations following a review by Dame Judith Hackitt in the aftermath of the Grenfell fire tragedy.

Brokenshire said: “There is nothing more important than ensuring people are safe in their own homes.

“That is why I am announcing a package of measures focused on improving building safety, having listened carefully to the concerns which have been raised.”

Responding to the announcement, Phil Buckle, director general of charity Electrical Safety First, said: “We are delighted the Government has finally recognised the importance of regular electrical checks in the private rental sector which protects both tenants and landlords.

“Electrical Safety First has led the charge for this to be made a legal requirement for UK homes and successfully lobbied for these to be introduced in the PRS in Scotland – with Wales and Northern Ireland set to follow suit.

“Our campaign for the introduction of these checks has been supported by 71% of MPs, from all parties.”

Fire safety: clarification of statutory guidance (Approved Document B) - https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/fire-safety-clarification-of-statutory-guidance-approved-document-b

 

[Michaelwgroves]

Source of information

Government to introduce mandatory five-year electrical safety checks for rental homes - http://www.propertyindustryeye.com/government-to-introduce-mandatory-five-year-electrical-safety-checks-for-private-landlords/

 

[Toneyz]

That's all very well as long as the EICR is done properly not just getting some readings and filling in N/A actually inspecting not just ticking the box then the objectives that are being tried to achieve in this legislation are being met.

 

[Octopus]

It's all very well getting eicrs done, but will they be done properly and will remedial work get done?

 

[Andy78]

That's all very well as long as the EICR is done properly not just getting some readings and filling in N/A actually inspecting not just ticking the box then the objectives that are being tried to achieve in this legislation are being met.

I think we can already guess that there will be no legislation regarding the specifics of the inspection and that council officials will not be checking the content of the reports, merely that they have been done, or have been reported to have been done.

 

[Wilko]

Unfortunately the lack of regulation will send this good initiative to the bottom pretty quick. Perhaps I need some more happy pills ...

 

[ruston]

@Wilco .
Yes , GN3 advises at change of occupancy if I remember right .
I have yet to see one.
So it will have to have some teeth.

 

[Michaelwgroves]

My local council and surrounding areas enforce unsatisfactory reports if they are made aware. Tenants have to speak out, you can't do nothing and expect something to happen.
It needs to be made a requirement of Section 21 like Gas certificates are. If this is the case landlords have a vested interest in getting work done. Simples...........

 

[ruston]

They enforce all repairs up here too, as you say they have to be reported first. The Landlords get a defined period of time to comply; if they don't the Council has the repairs done and bill the landlord.

Ps. In fairness most of the repairs needed are caused by tenants in the first place.

 

[Andy78]

I did about 15 EICRs for a landlord back in march. All unsatisfactory. They called this week to ask me to replace a kitchen light in one of the properties. I asked if they had considered any remedial work yet. They admitted they hadn't as they hadn't even looked at the reports I emailed them. I asked them to check whether their landlord insurance would cover them now the reports have been issued and issues identified.
I think they thought that paying for a report was their only consideration. It was the first time these properties had been tested in probably 40 years or more.

 

[Gavin John Hyde]

Had a survey recently from NICEIC asking views on a register of approved eicr inspectors. ie must have 2391, 2394/5 etc and no doubt the NICEIC are putting themselves forward to administer it and charge a extra bit of money to put your firm on the register. only those on the register would be allowed legally to do an eicr and insurance and qualifications would be verified...
Kind of fits with what the government are suggesting

 

[ruston]

I did about 15 EICR. It was the first time these properties had been tested in probably 40 years or more.

That about sums it up , not touched since they were bought .
I think most of them must not look at them and think it is a certificate , not a report.
I always tell them they are not fit for continued use if that is the case.

 

[Andy78]

That about sums it up , not touched since they were bought .
I think most of them must not look at them and think it is a certificate , not a report.
I always tell them they are not fit for continued use if that is the case.

To be fair to them, the property manager who ordered the work is now in another position and it was the new property manager who called me. Something could have got lost in the transition ..... I made it clear in the emails and on the phone to the previous manager though that the properties were not considered safe for continued use and work needed done.

 

[ruston]

There is nothing else you can do . Some are unscrupulous and do not care .
I hope you get the remedial's lol.

 

[westward10]

Had a survey recently from NICEIC asking views on a register of approved eicr inspectors. ie must have 2391, 2394/5 etc and no doubt the NICEIC are putting themselves forward to administer it and charge a extra bit of money to put your firm on the register. only those on the register would be allowed legally to do an eicr and insurance and qualifications would be verified...
Kind of fits with what the government are suggesting

Problem there is that many people who hold those qualifications should not be doing Periodics so that plan is immediately flawed.

 

[Gavin John Hyde]

Our local mp (lib dems) is trying to team up with labour to bring a law in where every rented property has a designated person / licence holder who is responsible for repairs, ensuring compliance ie gas safe/ electrics etc and is listed on a public register as point of contact in event of problems. they would be the person responsible for obtaining and acting on an eicr. much like the hmo system around here. i think it will come in after the grenfell tower report as when i spoke to her she said this will be when things become more regulated.
So if the responsible person doesnt not get a eicr or does not put things right when highlighted then they would be prosecuted.

 

[Octopus]

^^ wouldn't it be better if they started with a register of rental properties .... Per council

 

[Squid]

Maybe all houses need to have periodic checks carried out, like a car needs an MOT so just not in rentals, if you don't have the certs they treble your council tax, should be popular.

 

[Squid]

Our local mp (lib dems) is trying to team up with labour to bring a law in where every rented property has a designated person / licence holder who is responsible for repairs, ensuring compliance ie gas safe/ electrics etc and is listed on a public register as point of contact in event of problems. they would be the person responsible for obtaining and acting on an eicr. much like the hmo system around here. i think it will come in after the grenfell tower report as when i spoke to her she said this will be when things become more regulated.
So if the responsible person doesnt not get a eicr or does not put things right when highlighted then they would be prosecuted.

I remember when the rent control act came in and a load of people dumped rental properties on to the market, house prices went down rents went up and what was bought in, short term lets on a 6 month contract to protect the LL.

If landlords costs are increased then it just gets passed on to the renter as I have seen this in the past, as a lot of properties in the private sector are now rented out to the council to house the poor/peasants then at the end of the day it will come out of your taxes/council tax and whilst you are at work they will be breaking in to your van to steal your tools.

 

[Deleted account]

I did an EICR on a rental. To say the least it was shocking.

The tenants only concern was if the required works got remedied at high expence.then her rent would go up.

It justified a nearly full rewire.

Her rent was rediculiusly low because the place was a dump, but the tennant was happy with that.

 

[ferg]

Unfortunately it's near on impossible to make sure EICRs are not drive by affairs.

Just about everything that can be done is being done.

The EICR is already about 100 pages long with tick boxes for what you've got in your lunch box.

It's up to the contractors to make sure that it's done correctly.

Just about the only way to enforce it is to have a council bod follow you round while you are doing it.

If carrying out EICR's very frequently with a team of 2 guys you can get the time and cost right down. It's then less than what it's worth me charging for it .

I don't mind a race to get costs down as long as it's legitimately done.

 

[Toneyz]

The EICR is already about 100 pages long with tick boxes for what you've got in your lunch box.

That's because of the inspection not being done properly.

 

[ferg]

That's because of the inspection not being done properly.

That was precisely my point.

 

[StephenRowley]

Tenants have to speak out, you can't do nothing and expect something to happen.

Problem is that if you speak up as tenant, LL issues you notice at your next renewal and then you have the expense of finding a new house. Estate agent fee's are ££££.

 

[Michaelwgroves]

Problem is that if you speak up as tenant, LL issues you notice at your next renewal and then you have the expense of finding a new house. Estate agent fee's are ££££.

Agents fee's will be banned from Sprint 2019.
Tenants are protected from retaliatory evictions, there's usually another hidden reason for eviction. But most landlord evict using section 21 (no fault) as it's easier and just swallow lost rent and damage.
Evicting tenants cost the landlord a lot of money, so they try not to do it unless forced. So you had to spend a few hundred quid on a repair. It's a drop in the ocean compared to the cost of evicting a tenant. You have void costs, repair costs and agent fee's. Way better to keep the tenant unless they are not paying rent.

 

[littlespark]

In Scotland, landlords need to be on a register, as I am as I have a second home (up for sale now, dodgy tenant put us off)
The property had an EICR done, its insured properly and any tenancy agreement is done properly.

There are however still unregistered landlords undercutting the legit ones by not spending the money and having lower rents.
A 5 yearly EICR as well as a change of tenancy EICR is another cost to add to the rental income. The unregistered landlords simply will not comply.

 

[Octopus]

Agents fee's will be banned from Sprint 2019.
Tenants are protected from retaliatory evictions, there's usually another hidden reason for eviction. But most landlord evict using section 21 (no fault) as it's easier and just swallow lost rent and damage.

As you are a landlord, out of interest and assuming you are happy to share this information, how much, as a percentage of gross income per year, per property, do you budget for repairs and testing like this?

 

[Michaelwgroves]

I'm happy to share my experience but there is no hard and fast rule. But to reinforce what I said previously I try very hard to keep my tenants as it's much more cost effective to keep them than evict. If they accidentally break something I just fix and swallow cost.
In the grand scale of things maintenance is only slightly higher than owner occupier, generally you only do maintenance on change over, so like I said above, best to keep them.
There is a lot more regulation today, but I see this as a good thing as it helps push out the rogue landlords which makes room for the good ones. Unfortunately it's also pushing out many greylords who are good people, they just can't keep up with the regulations and get caught by the no win no fee solicitors chasing landlords who give good accommodation and look after their tenants, but might forget to cross the T's.
The industry is moving away from single lets to portfolio landlords, which I think is a shame.

 

[JK-Electrical]

EICRs for private lets in Scotland have been compulsory since December 2015. Although the Scottish Government's statutory guidance decrees that only SELECT or NICEIC members should be carrying-out EICRs, the guidance is generally ignored by many landlords and letting agents who hire solely on cost rather than competence.

In Scotland, landlords need to be on a register, as I am as I have a second home (up for sale now, dodgy tenant put us off)
The property had an EICR done, its insured properly and any tenancy agreement is done properly.

There are however still unregistered landlords undercutting the legit ones by not spending the money and having lower rents.
A 5 yearly EICR as well as a change of tenancy EICR is another cost to add to the rental income. The unregistered landlords simply will not comply.

SELECT calls for more stringent controls on electrical safety in privately rented accommodation.

 

[Squid]

Better off renting rooms out in a house off the grid in this day and age.

Small LL's are getting screwed over the and the deposit the tenant pays should be a lot higher, just look at how car hire companies work when it comes to the damage to a car should be same as with your property, in my time I have seen what nasty tenants can do to a property costing £1000's to put right with no compensation to the LL.

I prefer Rachman's way of dealing with tenants, bounce them down the stairs.

 

[Gavin John Hyde]

There is a agent around this way who takes smaller deposits or rent upfront but gives the tenant the choice of there own insurance or they must obtain it themselves prior to the tenancy starting that covers any damage caused outside of the deposit. cost about £70 for a flat £100 for a house. it also gives the tenant a month i think of rent in the event they loose there job, or cant work due to illness etc.. seems quite a popular option as it means they tenant needs only pay 4 weeks upfront without a large deposit aswell.

 

[StephenRowley]

There is a agent around this way who takes smaller deposits or rent upfront but gives the tenant the choice of there own insurance or they must obtain it themselves prior to the tenancy starting that covers any damage caused outside of the deposit.

That does seem like a better way of doing, you could also add in a no claims type bonus for tenants, that way tenants who look after the properties they rent get some kind of reward for doing so and LL don't end up out of pocket for bad ones.

On a side note estate agents fees are rip off for both LL and tenants. 12% commission a month of doing sweet FA most of time and £300 on top of the fee the charge tenants at the start of the of tenancy, for sending a few email/phone calls and signing a bit of paper.

 

[buzzlightyear]

what do the goverment know. Because they know nowt .now ,
they dont listen to us why listen to them .

 

[Squid]

There is a agent around this way who takes smaller deposits or rent upfront but gives the tenant the choice of there own insurance or they must obtain it themselves prior to the tenancy starting that covers any damage caused outside of the deposit. cost about £70 for a flat £100 for a house. it also gives the tenant a month i think of rent in the event they loose there job, or cant work due to illness etc.. seems quite a popular option as it means they tenant needs only pay 4 weeks upfront without a large deposit aswell.

With his way of thinking he then gets decent tenants, I find that in the smaller towns there is less scum then in the larger cities as they live local and don't move away, being a LL in the cities is tiring, luckily for 14 years I had decent tenants but in he past for my Mum I had to chase down the debtors far and few in between but I got the money back that was owed.

 

[mydigitalhome]

I find it interesting the amount of electrical insurance policy's that do not automatically allow you to carry out Periodics on work you did not originally install. Without charging you loads more on your policy due to the higher risks involved. Have any of you guys checked your policy recently to see if its covered?