Joint cables inside back box?

[Swicade]

oooh...controversy!!

a) even though there should be there isn't always an accurate kitchen plan (sometimes just the pretty computer picture of the final product)

b) as the socket's/switches etc are in place and we're all (supposedly) singing from the same hymm sheet the cable runs/safe zones are pretty obvious when fitting a kitchen

c) as kitchen fitters know there are extendable brackets etc out there making it easy to work around a cable's safe zones when fitting cabinets.

if i knew how to add the little smilies i would add a nice happy smilie...

 

[Resu]

Ah! A kitchen fitter has penetrated our defences!

 

[Octopus]

time to get my coat. bye bye thread!

 

[sedgy34]

This thread has no legs

 

[Tonkatoy27]

what he hell has that got to do with part p ?
So in he last 4 years you couldnt be bothered to spend just 2 days in college to learn the new regs that you need to get work ?
Pfft , thats your own fault.

He doesn't even have to do that, just pay for the exam and turn up. A whole £80 or so.
Double pfft, that's his own fault.

 

[ayjay]

Now excuse me If I'm wrong but everyone moaning about kitchen fitters drilling their cables, you do measure out a kitchen with all the units so you KNOW where they unit fixing lines are? If you don't then it's kinda your fault but if not no worries

---------------
i totally agree with you lucas
you would need x-ray spex when drilling fixings for the kitchen units

what i used to do is mark the cable runs beneith, on the plaster with a marker pen
its so simple http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGROSJbCPV8

 

[Guest111]

In my opinion all this safe zone business is asking for trouble,and was poorly thought out,obviously by someone with no experience.I mean all of us at some point have probably hung a cupboard and where are the fixings?at the edges,which is exactly where the safe zones are going to be when cupboards are fitted from one end of a wall to the other,right?Also why call it a safe zone?Its an area for cables and therefore carries a risk if you drill into it,hardly safe then is it?the term may be easily understood by us sparks but its other people who cause the problems usually and they probably don,t understand the the safe zone.Anything where there is a risk should be called a danger zone,whats next green flags for on on isolators!Back in my early days cables ran in logical lines horizontally or vertically from an accessory and if it ran somewhere unexpected such as up the bedroom wall to get into the loft for upstairs lights then you ran it through a box and fitted a blank plate,to give a visual indication that a cable was there,no problem back then.Sorry about the rant but I,ve been up half the night trying to sort a major mess out for a mate,retirement! its worse than working.

 

[Poptasticdave]

im a qualified electrician! the original socket is far too high above the worktops, just all needs re-jigging really

thanks guys!

also, i came across a lighting junction box under the floorboards.. all the terminals inside were being used by live/neturals and so someone has brought the earths OUTSIDE the jb and put them all into a chock block.. anyone ever seen this done? hmmmmmmmm

I think this was quite common at one time.

My parents house was built in 1956 and the original wiring, which was replaced only 18 months ago, was all like this on all circuits. In fact the ring mains only had twin cable and a separate, uninsulated, twisted steel earth, which was jointed outside junctions and so on.

My own house was rewired in 1979 by a qualified electrician of the day, who retired only about 8 years ago. All the lighting JB's are done like this too.

My own interpretation of the current regs is that this is unacceptable though, or maybe I'm being over-cautious?

 

[hermetic]

This was common practice on lighting circuits, and I don't think there is a problem with it under any regulations I can think of. the earth wires should be sleeved of course. The reason was simple, if you have a four terminal junction box, and you need all four terminals for lighting circuits, terminate the earth elsewhere, and outside the box keeps the inside less cluttered. As long as good workmanship is used, whats the problem? That last statement is not an invitation!!
Phil

 

[LightGEN]

someone has brought the earths OUTSIDE the jb and put them all into a chock block.. anyone ever seen this done? hmmmmmmmm

Yes, but they didn't bother to use strip connector - just twisted the CPC together. Ho hum.

 

[jwb]

im a qualified electrician! the original socket is far too high above the worktops, just all needs re-jigging really

thanks guys!

also, i came across a lighting junction box under the floorboards.. all the terminals inside were being used by live/neturals and so someone has brought the earths OUTSIDE the jb and put them all into a chock block.. anyone ever seen this done? hmmmmmmmm

yep, many times; and possibly even worse, cpc's taken out of the jb and simply twisted together. either of these examples are not that uncommon in installations erected around the 1970's

 

[bollax]

You stole my thunder Lucas, there is no reason why a none serviceable joint shouldn't be plastered over within the safe zone ofc.

 

[Poptasticdave]

Yes, but they didn't bother to use strip connector - just twisted the CPC together. Ho hum.

Yup, tying together various threads, all the joints, CPC and current-carrying, in my parents' 1950's semi were twisted in "Screwits" in the lighting circuits on the switch-wires.

I get the impression that in times gone by this was "normal" and maybe not even against regs pre 15th Ed (the earliest I was qual'd to)?

 

[Dave 85]

Now excuse me If I'm wrong but everyone moaning about kitchen fitters drilling their cables, you do measure out a kitchen with all the units so you KNOW where they unit fixing lines are? If you don't then it's kinda your fault but if not no worries

Too right. All this 'kitchen fitters are stupid' talk is pretty sad if you ask me. Its a bit like electronics engineers spending their lives banging on about how stupid electricians are.
Kitchen fitting is more about skill and craftsmanship, electrical work is more about knowledge. So what.....

Personally I have no repsect for a sparky who prances around a building site pretending to be superior to other trades simply becasue his training involved a bit of GCSE level maths and physics.

​

 

[Dave 85]

deleted

 

[mazdaman]

I agree why is a so claimed 'qualified electrician' asking how to extend a circuit in a simple domestic situation????
There are many DIYer's who will know that one!! I some times worry about the quality of electricians these days.

 

[Miketwinny]

BS7671 App:15

 

[Miketwinny]

BS7671 App:15
Can only spur 1 double socket off another double socket which is on a RFC.
Will have to extend the ring useing acceptable connections or turn the double socket into a FCU and spur off that.

 

[Generator]

Can someone define a "maintenance free" connection, and how that's achieved? I've seen so many overheated joints -
choc blocks, ceramic twist on joints, taped up twisted wires, crimps, ........ The best place for a joint is at a socket outlet or spur unit, if at all possible. Soldering (properly) is the only other permanent form I can think of, and even that needs durable insulation ( how many years does it take before pvc tape goes all snotty? - quite a few but it's not permanent).
Through crimps do have different current ratings, and need the correct die to be foolproof. How often have you tugged on a wire and pulled it out of the crimp?

 

[randym68]

just to put my 2p in

mfctitch lol just shows you don't know what being electrician is about, Its not so much what you do but what you don't do......if you think its connecting wires.....explain power factors, and Zs please, as ive read all these posts and not one person has mentioned Zs, loads, lenth of RFC , volts drop , or IR tests, this is why you need to be qualified, & certified & competent person, not just any of these, certified to self inspect and test and notify. thats the difference. and to all, part p has very very restricted work they can complete, things like spurs, and bonding (its designed for associated trades such as plumbers) ....fully approved electrician, is a different thing. and understand much much more.

if anyone don't think so please explain how you balance a polyphase supply with old florescent lamps , ( no power factor correction) lol