New E7 meter. Do I still need a timer for storage heater circuits?

[marcusone]

Hi guys

I'm out of touch with modern meters and haven't done a E7 install for years.
Trying to get info on a Ace9000 Kbd prepayment Economy 7 meter.
I've installed an additional cu for two storage heater circuits. Empty flat and supplier has left an isolator after the meter. Can I connect tails to the off peak supply without a timer or contactor. Does the meter do all this?

Thanks for any guidance. Mark.

 

[telectrix]

i would think so. there are 2 L tails coming out, so it appears to be a dual tariff meter.

 

[marcusone]

i would think so. there are 2 L tails coming out, so it appears to be a dual tariff meter.

Thanks Telectrix. Yes 2 L tails. Much appreciated.

 

[7029 dave]

Yes that has an integral time switch, terminal 5 (front right) is the off peak live terminal, that meter is prepayment meter.

 

[telectrix]

and looking at the £2.86 credit, it needs feeding.

 

[marcusone]

Yes that has an integral time switch, terminal 5 (front right) is the off peak live terminal, that meter is prepayment meter.

Thanks Dave. Terminal 5 is permanently live which is throwing me as I thought it would be timed?

 

[Dave OCD]

If both live outputs are on 24 hours a day then it must be faulty ?

 

[telectrix]

Thanks Dave. Terminal 5 is permanently live which is throwing me as I thought it would be timed?

how have you tested that?

 

[marcusone]

how have you tested that?

Hi Tel. With my voltage and continuity tester L-N 230 L-E 230 for terminal 5 at the 4 pole isolator fitted by dno.

 

[telectrix]

have you checked the same terminal after midnight?

 

[marcusone]

have you checked the same terminal after midnight?

No I haven't . What you thinking Tel ? Timings not set correctly?

 

[telectrix]

could be that what you ID as terminal 5 is the daytime output and terminal4 is night.

 

[davesparks]

Could you have been testing during an afternoon boost period (if such a thing still exists these days)

If both outgoing lives from the meter are permanently live then it suggests the meter may be faulty. Contact the electricity supplier for help with this.

 

[marcusone]

could be that what you ID as terminal 5 is the daytime output and terminal4 is night.

Existing consumer connected to terminal 4. All working fine. Thanks Tel.

 

[marcusone]

Could you have been testing during an afternoon boost period (if such a thing still exists these days)

If both outgoing lives from the meter are permanently live then it suggests the meter may be faulty. Contact the electricity supplier for help with this.

Looks that way guys. thanks for your input Dave and Tel. Ill contact them tomorrow and let you know the outcome.

 

[7029 dave]

Thanks Dave. Terminal 5 is permanently live which is throwing me as I thought it would be timed?

The tariff code could be single rate, hence both live. Do you have j screen and k ?if not it's single. Set for 24hrs suppy

 

[marcusone]

The tariff code could be single rate, hence both live. Do you have j screen and k ?if not it's single. Set for 24hrs suppy

The customer requested an Economy 7 meter so he could have storage heaters installed. I was expecting the meter to do the off peak switching. Ill check when i go back but does that mean its the wrong meter or that we have to provide external timer? Thanks Dave

 

[7029 dave]

The meter is ok, them prepayment meters are universal to all tariff's, the customer needs to ring their supplier to change the tariff code, by issuing new key, or may need visit. Once done 5th terminal will only switch on off peak times, no need for additional timer.

 

[marcusone]

The meter is ok, them prepayment meters are universal to all tariff's, the customer needs to ring their supplier to change the tariff code, by issuing new key, or may need visit. Once done 5th terminal will only switch on off peak times, no need for additional timer.

Dave, You're a star. Thanks guys for all the feedback.

 

[marcusone]

Update: Two meter installers have called . British Gas is the supplier. Both have been unable to set the meter up for E7 and have changed the meter as well with no joy. Last one said he will send a more experienced installer to set it up. All good fun .

 

[marcusone]

Update: "Experienced" meter installer arrived. Landlord said he changed the meter again to one "suitable for storage heaters". He still has 230v on the fifth terminal. Said its either a short circuit in the installation or thats how it is and you need to have the storage heaters connected and then the meter will recognize there is a load. Packed his tools and off he went lol. Landlord losing the will to live and I'm totally bemused. Beginning to think I will need to install a timer to control the storage heaters :-(

 

[7029 dave]

We are talking about the prepayment meter you showed a pic of right.? If so rubbish the meter needs to be programmed to e7 on my area 45 for general domestic 24hr supply, 49 for E7, 116 for e10, it is as simple as that, get the customer to change suppler if no joy. Having said that are you sure you are not getting back feed from the installation on that 5th terminal.?The only way to prove is to have it out.

 

[7029 dave]

Just to add when I mean back feed, the E7 tails from CU are live 24hrs.? If that is the case not a metering issue. You need to establish this, going by what you have been told by the mop.

 

[marcusone]

Just to add when I mean back feed, the E7 tails from CU are live 24hrs.? If that is the case not a metering issue. You need to establish this, going by what you have been told by the mop.

Hi Dave. Yes its that meter . I established that the 5th terminal (off peak) was live before i even carried out the installation of the off peak consumer unit and storage heater circuits. After having three guys out now all admitting that "something" is wrong and even replacing the meter twice we are losing faith in the supplier. I'm back at the property tomorrow and I'll do a belt and braces check yet again just for my own sanity, I think the outcome will be that we look at a new supplier. Fortunately the property is currently between tenants. Thanks Dave for the info fortunately I'm maintaining my sense of humor .

 

[marcusone]

The tariff code could be single rate, hence both live. Do you have j screen and k ?if not it's single. Set for 24hrs suppy

Hi Dave. I only have screens A, B, E, F, G, H, I, R, S and T. Disconnected the E7 tails from the Henleys out of meter and definitely still live from the meter. No back feed.

 

[marcusone]

Latest photo since supplier removed isolator and fitted Henley blocks. Seriously think I need to get landlord to find another supplier. Unbelievable such a simple thing is so difficult to sort.

 

[davesparks]

Why did they remove the isolator?

 

[marcusone]

Why did they remove the isolator?

Be amused, Landlord said it was to eliminate the possibility of a short circuit in the isolator!

 

[Midwest]

I know its been stated twice before, and at the risk of sounding like a bit of a lemon, when (i.e. time of day) are you testing E7 output?

 

[marcusone]

I know its been stated twice before, and at the risk of sounding like a bit of a lemon, when (i.e. time of day) are you testing E7 output?

Hi. Tested at various times various days . 10am, 2pm, 4pm.

 

[Midwest]

Hi. Tested at various times various days . 10am, 2pm, 4pm.

Last Economy 10 I tested came on between 2-4pm, not at 10am mind, but they do have various 'on' times, dependant on supplier. Best check

 

[davesparks]

Be amused, Landlord said it was to eliminate the possibility of a short circuit in the isolator!

Sounds like the usual level of understanding of a British gas employee.

 

[davesparks]

Be amused, Landlord said it was to eliminate the possibility of a short circuit in the isolator!

Sounds like the usual level of understanding of a British gas employee.

 

[7029 dave]

Hi Dave. I only have screens A, B, E, F, G, H, I, R, S and T. Disconnected the E7 tails from the Henleys out of meter and definitely still live from the meter. No back feed.

I can confidently tell you, with those screens it is still on general domestic 24hrs supply on both terminals which is correct.The prepayment meter needs to be reprogrammed to E7, once that is done, as I said some post back, you will see J screen (off peak reading) k screen (e7 off peak tariff price) Is the customer asking the suppler to change tariff to E7 .? Hope this helps. Good luck.

 

[marcusone]

I can confidently tell you, with those screens it is still on general domestic 24hrs supply on both terminals which is correct.The prepayment meter needs to be reprogrammed to E7, once that is done, as I said some post back, you will see J screen (off peak reading) k screen (e7 off peak tariff price) Is the customer asking the suppler to change tariff to E7 .? Hope this helps. Good luck.

Thanks Dave. Yes from the outset all the landlord has wanted is to have economy 7 meter. British Grasp said no problem but its been fun trying to get it sorted. I've sent landlord an email that he can forward to BG in one last attempt. Thanks again all, was beginning to doubt myself.

 

[7029 dave]

Just to add, are sure the customer is not on a fixed tariff?, (tied in like a mortgage) because that could be the problem, but I am sure they would have told him.?

 

[marcusone]

Just to add, are sure the customer is not on a fixed tariff?, (tied in like a mortgage) because that could be the problem, but I am sure they would have told him.?

No, not on a fixed tariff Dave. Latest news is they are sending out a new prepayment meter key which will sort the issue.......... Watch this space.

 

[davesparks]

No, not on a fixed tariff Dave. Latest news is they are sending out a new prepayment meter key which will sort the issue.......... Watch this space.

Are they sending a new isolator with it?

 

[marcusone]

Are they sending a new isolator with it?

 

[marcusone]

So... BG have sent out a "tag number" for Landlord to get a new key. Tag number doesn't work. Its a comedy of errors... Landlord emailing complaints department now.... Happy days.

 

[Midwest]

May be they are trying to put things off, waiting for their price hike

 

[Jurassic Sparks]

How does the meter detect the relevant change over time ?
is it built into the meter as a clock function, or does it use a radio signal ?
we had one some years ago that would not change over, after much tooing and rooing, it was found that a recent new build blocked the signal in the background of Radio 4

if they cant sort it get a contactor with a time clock built in

 

[marcusone]

Hi Jurassic. Thats just it. I'm know very little about current meters but assumed when we asked for an E7 meter to be installed that this one would do the off peak switching. Beginning to think they just keep giving us a 24hr supply with a "control" supply on terminal 5 and we have to install our own timer and contactor. Reluctant to do so if the meter is capable when programmed properly. Last resort if we have too can you recommend a contactor /time clock. Thanks all for your input really appreciated.

 

[davesparks]

How does the meter detect the relevant change over time ?
is it built into the meter as a clock function, or does it use a radio signal ?
we had one some years ago that would not change over, after much tooing and rooing, it was found that a recent new build blocked the signal in the background of Radio 4

if they cant sort it get a contactor with a time clock built in

A contactor and timer won't help at all, the problem is that the meter is not set up for E7, therefore they are being charged a flat rate 24/7
Th contactor and timer would switch the heaters on and off, but they would still not be on an E7 tariff.

 

[marcusone]

Hi All. Just an update...... finally resolved. Unbelievable amount of messing about but eventually someone at their end said the meter is E7 ready and it just needs the correct key to activate it . Key arrived and sure enough its all ready to roll. Thanks for the reassurance guys was beginning to doubt sanity!

 

[Octopus]

Hi All. Just an update...... finally resolved. Unbelievable amount of messing about but eventually someone at their end said the meter is E7 ready and it just needs the correct key to activate it . Key arrived and sure enough its all ready to roll. Thanks for the reassurance guys was beginning to doubt sanity!

Good man for giving us an update ......................... we come across these difficulties with the suppliers on a regular basis ................ like many things they have dumbed down the knowledge of the people in the field and on the end of a phone.............

Most of them are completely hopeless......................