Surely there must be a Reg against this?!

[SSE]

My neighbour has put up a large garage that sits alongside his house but not joined to it. He asked me to wire & fit out lights inside & sockets as well. Told him he needs to get SWA to supply it as he was insisting on runnning the supply in (save money I assume) & for some reason (mainly cos he's tight) he's went & put a plastic pipe from the house to the garage & run a 10mm twin & earth & a 10mm earth through it!! It looks rough as & to be honest I'm pretty annoyed as the cable was going to be run underground to in ducting to supply it. He's adamant he's leaving it like that unless he's breaking any rules! Anyone help?!?! If there's Reg that's not being complied with he'd have no option than to do it the way I said!

 

[telectrix]

aye but i dont like grey flat twins clipped on outside walls tel...uv light n all that lot....

i was referring to SWA cleated. not T/E.

 

[UNG]

Thanks for the advice chaps. I spoke with the mans wife tonight & she informed me she'd rather there was no pipe going from between the house & the garage!

So you wait till hubby is out of the way and give the wife the hard sell just so you don't look out of your window and see this pipe

Not wanting to cause them a huge hike in price, I suggested to her that I could run the SWA from the garage to inside the house loft (a distance of about 8m) & then just join it in a joint box (not the best I know but believe me a lot better than the visible pipe) throught to the house CU. She's more than happy with this she said. I think if I suggested this way in the first place her husband may have been OK with this, I think he just wasn't keen on a 25m run in SWA because of the price. It's not going to take half an hour to dig the trench & luckily for me my mate has a day off next week & says he'll do it for me (yes he's one of those that can't sit still on a day off unlike me!!). It wasn't even a 10mm T & E he ran in either it was a 6mm! Will still be fine though as it's just a ring & 4 strip lights & I'm sure there ain't going to be a massive voltage drop in a 25m run! Going to try & figure out how to post a picture on here as I took one earlier just to let you's see what he'd done.

But you are causing the cost of the job to escalate and suggesting you replace what you consider a problem with another method you consider is another problem and not the best !!!

Not the worst you've seen I'm sure but I just wasn't wanting to put my name to it, where I live word spreads quick so something rough like this wouldn't do me any favours!

Yeah I know but there was no telling him!! His wife has given me go ahead to run armoured from garage cu to inside property & put it in a joint box in attic then T&E to cu. It's not the best having to join it but going to have to compromise as they guy obviously doesn't want to spend much money. Least this way it will look tidy & I've not got people thinking I'm rough!

Probably better than an armoured cleated down an outside wall, personally the my way or no way somebody find me a reg attitude to justify what I don't like is ringing bells with me

What if where you live your name goes round as someone who waits till hubby's away and sells unnecessary work to their wives

well.....its your job gall.....so of course its your call.....
after all you will be responsible for certing this....
think i would avoid jointing onto some twin though with a throughbox (presumably)....
hmm......take `instruction` from his Mrs.......let her deal with `im when the time comes...lol....
at least you know it will be as (it should be) you wanted it....in reality...

I thought we only certified for electrical safety and compliance with the regs not whether or not the job looks right.
While the let her deal with him when he comes home may work you are only a phone call or in this case a fence away from confrontation

No one seems to have picked up on the conduit been plastic (electrical conduit assumed) isnt ideal for the environment its in namely that
in the summer sunlight it will heat up on one side quicker than the other and buckle and warp, this can nip/trap the cable.
Another point is white pipe unless stated lacks UV tolerance and will degrade and become brittle very quickly, its difficult to tell from pic how the conduit is attached at either end and how its sealed as you will find the rain will readily run down to the lower point along the conduit.

If PVCu outside is that much of a problem outside I'd be more worried about my plastic windows falling out

Ive just had a callout to the exact same thing a garden shed with a 20mm white pvc conduit from house which had warped and sliced into the very cable its supposed to protect also it was showing UV damage too to add to this, upon enquiry she told me the guys from B&Q did it for her when they took old shed away and fitted new one last year, no rcd protection etc etc need i say more!

With one poor installation it doesn't necessarily follow they will all suffer the same installation problem IMO

That doesn't look too hideous, I was expecting far worse from the description, I would be reluctant to replace it if that's what the guy wanted, he's happy with it obviously, although it sounds like the boss his Mrs doesn't like it so that the end of it

Looks neater than a surface cleated SWA to me but each to their own if it's safe it's not a problem in my book

 

[telectrix]

would have looked better in black, though. let the pvc pipe stay, wait till he gets a mini-digger into the garden, ripping down the pipe, then you can say "told you so!".

 

[GLENNSPARK]

i was referring to SWA cleated. not T/E.

no its just that i (and i am sure most others in here) have seen it umpteen times.....usually feeding PIR lamps n stuff....
of course i wasn`t suggesting for a moment that you would do it Tel.....

 

[GLENNSPARK]

I thought we only certified for electrical safety and compliance with the regs not whether or not the job looks right.
While the let her deal with him when he comes home may work you are only a phone call or in this case a fence away from confrontation






[/QUOTE]so.....do you not think it needs to look something like as well?...

 

[UNG]

so.....do you not think it needs to look something like as well?...

The OP was looking for a reg to dis the overhead pipe using BS 7671 we don't certify the aesthetics of an installation providing it is safe and functional that is it. While we may suggest other equally safe and functional installation methods it is not for us to cast aspersions as to other peoples methods to complete an installation if they can live with it then it is their choice

Yes I agree a job needs to look right but this is no worse than a SWA surface cleated to the exterior wall of the house and probably garage wall personally I believe wherever possible cables should be out of sight and out of mind to a point where my bit of OCD kicks in and it becomes a mission to do the job with no cable on show

 

[Silly Sausage]

I think it could fall foul of External Influences.
Someone could see that pipe and think 'Great pullup bar', jump up and grab hold and rip it all down. :wink_smile:

 

[telectrix]

no its just that i (and i am sure most others in here) have seen it umpteen times.....usually feeding PIR lamps n stuff....
of course i wasn`t suggesting for a moment that you would do it Tel.....

i have occasionally been guilty of clipping 1.0mm T/E to external lights. sometimes there's just not enough in the job to T/E into an adaptable box, then out in u/v resistant flex. do it if the money's right.

 

[SSE]

well is there any extranious in that garage?....
is it PME?
if so then the 10mm earthing will have to stay...

Nothing extranious in the the garage but surely if there was I could use the armour as an earth?. If the 10mm has to stay its no big deal. I got good discounted prices today & they are as follows: 6mm t & e £2.17 + vat per metre & SWA £2.04 + vat. So it's goin' to work out cheaper my way anyway! As he had already run the cable in (albeit not the one that's going to stay) I will not charge him for the labour for running the new one in. So all in, it's going to work out cheaper this way.

Having seen the pic it would be interesting to know why you thought this doesn't comply with the regs Gallager.

I wasn't sure if it did or didn't. One thing that concerned me though was that each side of the pipe was just entered into each side & not secure in any way. I check the stability of it & it wobbled a fair bit. It's a fairly open area & who's to say if it was high winds this would stay in place.

 

[SSE]

Oh and UNG I didn't give the wife the hard sell at all, I explained the situation to her. It's not as if I'm doing this my way for financial gain as I won't make a single penny more, it's more so my work looks neat & tidy. The cleated cable will be hidden as well with a protective cover & goes into the garage that via a duct that's already in place.

 

[ayjay]

well, at least she can hang her washing out to dry on the pipe, nothing too heavy mind
just smalls

-

 

[Deleted member 9648]

Nothing extranious in the the garage but surely if there was I could use the armour as an earth?.

Well maybe...maybe not....if you use 6.0mm 3c XPLE SWA the sheath has a copper equivalent of 7.39mm....not big enough for a 10mm main bond if the supply is TNCS.....

 

[SSE]

Well maybe...maybe not....if you use 6.0mm 3c XPLE SWA the sheath has a copper equivalent of 7.39mm....not big enough for a 10mm main bond if the supply is TNCS.....

Ah man, forgot it's a 6mm & not a 10mm! I have to run a 10mm earth then so be it, I'll just knock the extra of what I'll charge so that they don't have to pay more. Nothing will be seen cable wise anyway as it will have a protective cover over it & then go underground through ducting. Your username gave me a wee chuckle by the way! lol.

 

[tigerpaul]

If you use 3c6mm you will have 6mil cpc + 7 odd mil for the armouring!

 

[SSE]

If you use 3c6mm you will have 6mil cpc + 7 odd mil for the armouring!

Yeh someone just said that. If needed I'll just run the seperate 10mm. I never knew until this thread that the armour was 7 odd mill though, learn something new every day!

 

[bugsy]

tell him your happy to utilise his install - It makes you smile when leaving for work and again when you get home,

 

[bartkusal]

If you want for the regs on that conduit, look for conduit support spacings, looks like you have about 2 m run with no supports(no compliant), then white pvc is not good in sunlight(not sure about regs on this one), and then I see this conduit being a good support for some numpty doing pullups.

 

[malcolmsanford]

If you want for the regs on that conduit, look for conduit support spacings, looks like you have about 2 m run with no supports(no compliant), then white pvc is not good in sunlight(not sure about regs on this one), and then I see this conduit being a good support for some numpty doing pullups.

I think you find that is part of the OSG and not the regulations

 

[Rockingit]

If you want for the regs on that conduit, look for conduit support spacings, looks like you have about 2 m run with no supports(no compliant), then white pvc is not good in sunlight(not sure about regs on this one), and then I see this conduit being a good support for some numpty doing pullups.

Looks like 2" waste pipe to me, a totally different animal.

 

[SSE]

1 more question regarding this damn garage again!! Right carried out the swa/ducting plan. Obviously he'd already measured off the 10mm earth so I had just run it in with my swa, anyway the garage door has a steel frame down each side, bolted to the wall, sitting on very small wooden stilts then onto concrete, this is going to need bonded I assume but the 10mm earth only goes a far as the garage cu, is the bond to be continuous from the house or is from the garage cu to the steel adequate? Last question on this subject, I promise.lol.

 

[Des 56]

Not read entire thread,so sorry if this is a numpty question,but with bonding in mind.

A new 6.omm swa has been run with an additional seperate 10 mm earth cable for bonding ?

Why did you not just upsize the swa to 10mm ?

 

[SSE]

Not read entire thread,so sorry if this is a numpty question,but with bonding in mind.

A new 6.omm swa has been run with an additional seperate 10 mm earth cable for bonding ?

Why did you not just upsize the swa to 10mm ?

Pretty sure if it was a 10mm SWA would still need a seperate earth for bonding no? Unless used the armour as an earth I suppose. Also the guy is tight as anything, every penny a prisoner so he wasn't wanting anything he didn't have to.

 

[monkeyelectric]

Have you checked to see if the frame needs bonding?

 

[Des 56]

A 10mm 3 core would have been approx £1-50 per meter extra cost compared to 6.0mm 2 core and negate the need for a seperate earth bonding cable

 

[SSE]

Have you checked to see if the frame needs bonding?

I'm not actually 100% sure it needs bonding as it's sitting on small bits of wood each side, it's not sunk into concrete into the ground so it's not a clear path to ground, although dampness etc could change this. One of my mates is home from the rigs next week going to have a look to see what he thinks, he's a good bit more experienced than I am. My normal line of work until recently was mainly maintenance you see, not many new installations. Is there a test I can do to see if it needs bonding.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

1 more question regarding this damn garage again!! Right carried out the swa/ducting plan. Obviously he'd already measured off the 10mm earth so I had just run it in with my swa, anyway the garage door has a steel frame down each side, bolted to the wall, sitting on very small wooden stilts then onto concrete, this is going to need bonded I assume but the 10mm earth only goes a far as the garage cu, is the bond to be continuous from the house or is from the garage cu to the steel adequate? Last question on this subject, I promise.lol.

nothing to say that the 10mm bonding you have extended.....cant also be the PME that you export....in other words....just take the 10mm into the sub boards MET....then out to extranious....

 

[SSE]

Thanks Glennspark.

Regarding bonding, Am I right in thinking that by getting my wandering lead & going between the steelwork and the met, then after pulling the fuse, if I do an IR this values should tell me if it needs it or not, if I can remember correctly it's anything over 22k or 23k ohms means it doesn't need bonded??

 

[monkeyelectric]

Anything less than 22 k ohms needs bonding

 

[SSE]

Anything less than 22 k ohms needs bonding

Cheers. So just pull the house fuse, do the IR then take it from there if it needs bonded or not...

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Cheers. So just pull the house fuse, do the IR then take it from there if it needs bonded or not...

????
your conductin the test that monkey has told you at #58 between exposed and extranious conductive parts...
so whats the bullit got to do with it?...