Wet Pants why oh why....

[Dustydazzler]

Long story short my brother is having a new boiler fitted , the old one was wired via a plug top to a kitchen worktop socket.
So I (FOC) wired him a new 2.5 radial on its own circuit back to the board fished under the floor and through a cupboard so took about a hour left the end coiled up next the consumers unit. Fitted a nice new surface spur in the cupboard ready to be energised once the plumber was there.
Wet pants has pulled my cable out , removed my fused spur and put the new boiler back on a plug top into the worktop socket just because I couldn't get there when he wanted to liven the spur up.

Argggg...

Why he pulled the cable out and removed the spur I have no idea.

 

[davesparks]

I can understand him plugging the boiler in, that's far safer than him connecting it into an sfcu if you couldn't get there in time.
But why would he remove the sfcu and wiring? Unless they were in the way of his work?

 

[telectrix]

send the idiot a quote for redoing the work.

 

[buzzlightyear]

that will teach you slow coach, lol.

 

[static zap]

....
Why he pulled the cable out and removed the spur I have no idea.

Did anyone mention the word "Electrician" to him.
Does sound like eyed up parts for next "Posh-Job" , or did he chuck in bin .

 

[Pete999]

He is a Plumber fer God's sake what did you expect? common sense? get real.

 

[123]

Why 2.5mm for a Boiler (Gas I assume)?
Why not 1.5mm?

 

[Dustydazzler]

Why 2.5 ?

It’s what I had to hand On the end of a roll

 

[davesparks]

Why 2.5mm for a Boiler (Gas I assume)?
Why not 1.5mm?

Most people keep 1.0 and 2.5 on the van, 1.5 is more unusual.
So you could install a standard circuit of 2.5mm on a 16A MCB or calculate for a non standard circuit in 1.0mm,far easier to just follow a standard circuit plus it gives a bit of leeway of other things need to be added to the circuit later.

 

[Risteard]

Most people keep 1.0 and 2.5 on the van, 1.5 is more unusual.
So you could install a standard circuit of 2.5mm on a 16A MCB or calculate for a non standard circuit in 1.0mm,far easier to just follow a standard circuit plus it gives a bit of leeway of other things need to be added to the circuit later.

In fairness to @123 everyone here would stock 1.5mm^2 cable - 1mm^2 would be very unusual. I never understood the 2.5mm^2 heating circuits either but your explanation about 1.5mm^2 cable not generally being stocked there seems like a reasonable explanation. Why not stock 1mm^2, 1.5mm^2 and 2.5mm^2 though?

 

[davesparks]

In fairness to @123 everyone here would stock 1.5mm^2 cable - 1mm^2 would be very unusual. I never understood the 2.5mm^2 heating circuits either but your explanation about 1.5mm^2 cable not generally being stocked there seems like a reasonable explanation. Why not stock 1mm^2, 1.5mm^2 and 2.5mm^2 though?

Generally we have no need for 1.5mm T&E, domestic lighting circuits are normally 6A so 1.0mm is more than big enough, and the vast majority of power circuits will need 2.5mm.
When I was doing domestic we used to have 1.0 2.5 and 6.0 on the van which covers the majority of jobs. Adding 1.5 and 4.0 would have just taken up space unnecessarily.
Plus there is everyone's favourite reasons of 'we've always done it like this' or 'that's the way we did it when I was an apprentice'

 

[Dustydazzler]

I occasionally carry some 1.5 t@e but it’s habit that I near always use 2.5 for domestic power radials

 

[ChrisElectrical88]

I never use 1.0, always 1.5mm in domestic.

Think its just habit thats always stuck, very commercial upbringing

 

[123]

Ah totally forgot that on your side of the Irish Sea you use 1.0mm for lighting, we use 1.5mm, and you'd do well to find a wholesaler here that stocks 1.0mm (I don't know of any). We also have 1.5mm PVC/PVC Singles brown or blue and 1.5mm PVC/PVC & Earth brown or blue stocked by all wholesalers.

 

[Risteard]

Ah totally forgot that on your side of the Irish Sea you use 1.0mm for lighting, we use 1.5mm, and you'd do well to find a wholesaler here that stocks 1.0mm (I don't know of any). We also have 1.5mm PVC/PVC Singles brown or blue and 1.5mm PVC/PVC & Earth brown or blue stocked by all wholesalers.

Perhaps we'll teach them our ways yet!

 

[davesparks]

Ah totally forgot that on your side of the Irish Sea you use 1.0mm for lighting, we use 1.5mm, and you'd do well to find a wholesaler here that stocks 1.0mm (I don't know of any). We also have 1.5mm PVC/PVC Singles brown or blue and 1.5mm PVC/PVC & Earth brown or blue stocked by all wholesalers.

Do you use bigger ocpds? To my mind it makes no sense to use 1.5 for a 6A circuit whem 1mm is already bigger than is normally necessary.
PVC/PVC singles and PVC/PVC single+earth is something I would love to see commonly available, and used, over here.

Unnecessary waste of materials annoys the hell out of me, oversized cables or T&E used where only one core is required are fine examples.

 

[Toneyz]

Why he pulled the cable out and removed the spur I have no idea.

He had no permission to remove the cable.

 

[Risteard]

Do you use bigger ocpds? To my mind it makes no sense to use 1.5 for a 6A circuit whem 1mm is already bigger than is normally necessary.
PVC/PVC singles and PVC/PVC single+earth is something I would love to see commonly available, and used, over here.

Unnecessary waste of materials annoys the hell out of me, oversized cables or T&E used where only one core is required are fine examples.

In the north it tends to be 1.5mm^2 with 6A circuit breakers, but in the south the norm is 1.5mm^2 with a 10A MCB (which I accept is more logical to use with it).

 

[Toneyz]

In the north it tends to be 1.5mm^2 with 6A circuit breakers, but in the south the norm is 1.5mm^2 with a 10A MCB (which I accept is more logical to use with it).

Is this for domestic? if so how does the calculation work out when in loft insulation?

 

[MJPD29]

I agree with 123 I've only ever bought 1 roll of 1mm in my life always 1.5mm. You all need to get using twin brown there as well. Surely better than having to sleeve switch cables. As for the plumber, sounds like he did it out of spite because you couldn't be there at his demand, they are strange and awkward people

 

[JK-Electrical]

Why he pulled the cable out and removed the spur I have no idea.

Because stupid is as stupid does.

 

[GeorgeCooke]

I agree with 123 I've only ever bought 1 roll of 1mm in my life always 1.5mm. You all need to get using twin brown there as well. Surely better than having to sleeve switch cables. As for the plumber, sounds like he did it out of spite because you couldn't be there at his demand, they are strange and awkward people

With twin brown you don't which is which. The best method, as used in some countries, is an identifiable switch wire colour, orange or violet.

 

[GeorgeCooke]

Long story short my brother is having a new boiler fitted , the old one was wired via a plug top to a kitchen worktop socket.

So what happened to the plug bottom?

 

[Risteard]

With twin brown you don't which is which. The best method, as used in some countries, is an identifiable switch wire colour, orange or violet.

Why would you need to know whether a phase conductor is switched or not? From a safety aspect all that is important is that it's a phase conductor. How do orange or violet phase conductors match harmonised colours?

 

[telectrix]

i would be concerned if the perm L went to L1 and the sw.L to C. on a switch. extra time involved with a meter. give me red and black (sleeved where needed) every time.

oops its not red/black anymore. it's light grey and dark grey when your headtorch battery is going flat.

 

[MJPD29]

With twin brown you don't which is which. The best method, as used in some countries, is an identifiable switch wire colour, orange or violet.

One is usually dark brown and the other a lighter shade for that exact purpose, and it's still a long shot better than blue and stops careless people from failing to sleeve it correctly

 

[MJPD29]

Do you use bigger ocpds? To my mind it makes no sense to use 1.5 for a 6A circuit whem 1mm is already bigger than is normally necessary.
PVC/PVC singles and PVC/PVC single+earth is something I would love to see commonly available, and used, over here.

Unnecessary waste of materials annoys the hell out of me, oversized cables or T&E used where only one core is required are fine examples.

Are single pvc/pvc and earth not readily available? What do you do if you need to take a neutral and earth to a light with a switch wire coming from somewhere else? Just run a t+e?

 

[Robson689]

One is usually dark brown and the other a lighter shade for that exact purpose, and it's still a long shot better than blue and stops careless people from failing to sleeve it correctly

TBH even if they weren't different shades, it's simple enough to identify the conductors just like you would have to with MICC cable it hardly takes any time

 

[Risteard]

TBH even if they weren't different shades, it's simple enough to identify the conductors just like you would have to with MICC cable it hardly takes any time

Precisely. I didn't think a simple continuity test or beller test should be beyond any of us.

 

[littlespark]

Simple to bell out when you've got that cpc just sitting there. Just stick a bared brown end into the screwhole of the box and bell from the other end to find...

Saying that, I prefer working with brown/blue rather than brown/brown.... but then I haven't seen any of that since it was red/red.


So, following on from everyones suggestions.… my van contains brown 6241Y, blue 6241Y in 1.0mm and 1.5mm..... 6242Y in 1.0, 1.5, 2.5, 4.0, 6 and 10... G/Y singles in 10 and 16 along with 25mm tails...
1.0, 1.5 and 2.5 singles for working with conduit.... in brown, blue, black, grey and g/y…….
All that, and a cable roller... (black and decker workmate and a broom handle) in the back of my little van....
I've had to leave all my tools at home!

Seriously though. I've just started using 1.0mm more than 1.5 for lighting. A bit easier for terminating into downlights with push in connectors. Find 1.0 is easy to snap in a screw connection

 

[telectrix]

get out the MFT and wander lead. null the meter, fall over the wander lead that tangles round your legs when half way up your steps. clip end on cable at light, then realise that tripping over the wander lead has pulled the croc off at the switch. SOD IT. brown/blue every time.

 

[Risteard]

get out the MFT and wander lead. null the meter, fall over the wander lead that tangles round your legs when half way up your steps. clip end on cable at light, then realise that tripping over the wander lead has pulled the croc off at the switch. SOD IT. brown/blue every time.

No need for a wander lead. Simply put one of the browns on the cpc terminal on the backbox and bell it out.

 

[telectrix]

No need for a wander lead. Simply put one of the browns on the cpc terminal on the backbox and bell it out.

too easy. you'll have apprentices over educated.

 

[pirate]

Tel, you have a ...
headtorch???
Traitor!
and i thought you were old school too...

BTW, I have a 100m drum of twin red if anybody is interested...

 

[pirate]

JK...they are not just stupid, they are evil!

 

[davesparks]

Are single pvc/pvc and earth not readily available? What do you do if you need to take a neutral and earth to a light with a switch wire coming from somewhere else? Just run a t+e?

It's very rare to encounter that situation as the way we wire lighting circuits generally doesn't produce that situation. Plus we are used to thinking in terms of using T&E so would naturally tend to wire the lighting that way.
But yes when a single conductor and earth is needed then we would normally just run a twin and only use one conductor.

 

[Risteard]

It's very rare to encounter that situation as the way we wire lighting circuits generally doesn't produce that situation. Plus we are used to thinking in terms of using T&E so would naturally tend to wire the lighting that way.
But yes when a single conductor and earth is needed then we would normally just run a twin and only use one conductor.

I would suggest that it's not that uncommon with outside lights though, or wall lights etc.

 

[davesparks]

I would suggest that it's not that uncommon with outside lights though, or wall lights etc.

I can't say I recall ever encountering the need for single core and earth for either of those.
Normally I'd just take a feed to the switch and s/l and neutral to the light from the switch, or alternatively use a joint box. But that's what I mean by us approaching the job from the point of view of using T&E rather than having a single core cable available.

 

[JK-Electrical]

JK...they are not just stupid, they are evil!

Aye ..... the spawn of satan.

 

[telectrix]

Aye ..... the spawn of satan.

.that's derogatory to Satan. i'll have to report you for Satanism post.

 

[Pete999]

Aye ..... the spawn of satan.

Why do you say that JK? any specific reason

 

[JK-Electrical]

Why do you say that JK? any specific reason

First reason.

Second reason.

Third reason.

 

[Spoon]

Tel, you have a ...
headtorch???
Traitor!
and i thought you were old school too...

I'm glad he does as I borrowed it when he was doing work at ours. I lost mine, so I have now bought a new one.

 

[Pete999]

First reason.

Second reason.

Third reason.

Safe to say then JK, you don't have a lot of time for Plumbers???

 

[JK-Electrical]

Safe to say then JK, you don't have a lot of time for Plumbers???

Safe as houses Pete.

 

[pirate]

Safe to say, pete999, from your own comments previously, you aren't a fan of them either!
But...

I know a good plumber!
yes, truly i do!

He is exceptional, and while not cheap, why should he be?

He is the best exponent of pipework I have ever had the privilege to meet, and thus...maybe unusual.

If anybody in the Glasgow area wants a plumber who is top class, approachable, intelligent and skilled in all matters of heating, bathrooms, kitchens, hot water systems...anything...
and who will meet you on site, agree the works, not steal your cable runs, and make sure the final works are top notch...

I know that man!

I am the worst customer ever, trust me!

This guy is one in a million, and I just show him he job, give him the keys, pay the bill, and never ever have to call him back.

Shane...if you are reading this...
brilliant, mate!

 

[JK-Electrical]

I know a good plumber!
yes, truly i do!

Have you been at the rum again?

 

[pirate]

Again???

Constantly!

He lives half a mile away from Luscious L, btw!

 

[JK-Electrical]

Again???

Constantly!

He lives half a mile away from Luscious L, btw!

Lucky guy! The very thought of being within half a mile of Luscious L makes my ----- heart throb.

 

[DPG]

Who's luscious L?

Extra words.