What panels are best value

[Earthstore]

Is there a 330w module sunpower

There is a 327 and a 333 module, if you would like to know more PM me.

 

[provr6]

I don't see how anyone can estimate a particular panels performance deteriation in future. My biggest concern regarding panels performance is water ingress.

 

[solarcat]

I don't see how anyone can estimate a particular panels performance deteriation in future. My biggest concern regarding panels performance is water ingress.

Don't think we need to worry too much about this.
Crystalline PV panels have been manufactured more or less in the same way as they are now since the late 80sand manufacturers are still happy to offer good warranties. Unless the glass or the back sheet of the panels break, water ingress is extremely unlikely as the cells are encapsulated and laminated.
Companies like Kyocera, Helios Technology, Solarworld have all been around for ages, all that has changed about their modules is the efficiency of the cells and the format.

 

[Glen Powell]

I think moisture entering into the system is a very important factor, I always look in the corners where the glass meets the frame on some panels there is a large gap where water can collect and enter the panel.

The glass quality is very, very important as over time it may tarnish or discolour making it harder for the light to penetrate, the make and design of the connection box, some may let humidity in which over the years will corrode the terminals. Sealants used to ensure it will still be sealed after 10years.

Why do some manufacturers insist on using stainless steel screws on aluminium frames, I am sure the two metals react causing corrosion over the years, but if it is all time tested then all must be OK.

Thats my basic take on panels anyway before going into technicalities of the Cells

 

[solarcat]

I think moisture entering into the system is a very important factor, I always look in the corners where the glass meets the frame on some panels there is a large gap where water can collect and enter the panel.

The frame is not intended to provide water tightness, it is there for mechanical strength and ease of fixing (so that the pressure applied to the panels by the fixings does not affect the glass).

The encapsulation and lamination process are there to provide water tightness.

 

[Glen Powell]

The frame is not intended to provide water tightness, it is there for mechanical strength and ease of fixing (so that the pressure applied to the panels by the fixings does not affect the glass).

The encapsulation and lamination process are there to provide water tightness.

I think that you may find some will delaminate over time depending on lamination process as others will have no lamination at all, some of the lamination processes will use glues that have more potential to break down than others. I am fortunate enough to see solar panels that we have installed over 7 years ago and see what age has done to them within different conditions, And the panels are from reputable sources as that was all that was around then.

 

[MCS Renewables]

You can get a comprehensive list of about 400 manufacturers products listed in order of build quality, history, manufacturing techniques, etc etc etc. They were all tested up to late 2011.

It is over £5K and is available here. EuPD Research - International Solar

The top ten products include Sanyo HIT and Schott Mono, there are no poly in the top twenty six , the highest Chinese company is Upsolar with a MONO at position 29 . The top thirty are ranked 1-30 the rest are sort of clumped toghether in batches.

Canadian solar which is a Chinese brand plus Yingli and Suntech are nearer the halfway point. This is probably more than purchasers of the reports are allowed to reveal publicly, so thats all your getting !

 

[Glen Powell]

Looking at their weighting system though I do see it as a bit dependent on market trend rather than technical capabilities. Asking installers / customers which is the best panel / inverter technically is sometimes not the correct way to establish the true result. I can see the questions now.

Which panel do you use? Sharp
Would you use any other panel? no
Do you believe your panel choice is the best? yes
What is your favourite module? NUR245J5
Why is this your favourite module? Its cheap and there are loads of them

Very scientific and very bias to ones prefered brand. Sanyo is a good module technically so won't knock it but for canadian to be that low shows the research has no substance although I am glad to see Upsolar higher than those but under field tests the Upsolar 190 module has achieved rankings of 1 in performance for kwh/kwp in photon.

Installers will never say they install rubbish so their panel of choice is always the best, customers never want to be told they have bought rubbish so their panels will always be the best, manufacturers know if their product is good or bad but will always say they are the best for sales. I really see a flaw in this method of research.

 

[danesol]

......Installers will never say they install rubbish so their panel of choice is always the best, customers never want to be told they have bought rubbish so their panels will always be the best, manufacturers know if their product is good or bad but will always say they are the best for sales. I really see a flaw in this method of research.

You say that and I dont disagree BUT if I had my time again, I would NEVER use or entertain an installer who only stuck with one make of panel or Inverter...... unless their recommendations could be verified and substantiated by local referrals to me or it married the results of my own homework into what would be best for my particular circumstances.

I believe a good Installer should offer a range of different component based systems, and let you decide which one you want

 

[Glen Powell]

I believe a good Installer should offer a range of different component based systems, and let you decide which one you want

I totally agree and our method of choosing panels for customers is based on Quality, performance and ROI. we have 3 main lines but offer other panels / inverters for different situations.

 

[danesol]

I totally agree and our method of choosing panels for customers is based on Quality, performance and ROI. we have 3 main lines but offer other panels / inverters for different situations.

I might add though.....Even with extensive research yourself, its very difficult to get definite answers to this type of original question as for weeks now ( post install) I have been trying to find similar installations to mine to study & analyse based on panels alone or inverter alone and to try and find a like to like is near impossible if you live in a small village, as naturally the weather, direction and angle of roof play such a dramatic part in the equation, so someone even with a similar design to you in the same 5mile area may have complete different results due to the main factor - weather.

So all in all even when you have done your homework, studied similar designed systems to you potentially on pvoutput - you still heavily rely on the professionalism and experience of an installer you trust

ps> Studying similar systems on PVO can be abit of an eye opener as well......... LOL

 

[FB.]

ps> Studying similar systems on PVO can be abit of an eye opener as well......... LOL

Out of interest, what kind of things have really caught your eye?

 

[FB.]

Of about two dozen systems of similar size, with similar facing, in my county or adjacent counties, I'm seeing my performance compared to others as (any shade or superior aspect is noted)
Minus values indicate my system underperforming (although I can't hope to compete with the South-facing systems until summer arrives; I should be about 10% behind them over the last several weeks - all other things being equal)

Systems, SE-facing which I would expect to underperform due to Sanyo panels:
14x235W Sanyo/SB3000HF: -12%
16x250W Sanyo/SB4000TL (slight shading): -10%
16x240W Sanyo/SB2000HF (slight shading): +6%
16x250W Sanyo/Aurora3600OUTD (slight shading): -6%
14x250W Sanyo/SB3000 (South facing): 0%
16x240W Sanyo/SB3800 (slight shading): -6%
MEDIAN: -6%
MEAN: -5%

South-facing systems which I would expect to underperform by about 10% over the last several weeks:
16x250W Emmvee/Fronius IG TL 3.6 (South-facing): +8% (not a typo)
16x245W Sharp/Aurora3600OUTD (South facing): -13%
16x240W REC/SB4000TL (South facing): -6%
14x235W Sharp/SB3000 (South facing): -13%
20x195W HJM/SB3600 (South facing): -13%
MEDIAN: -13%
MEAN: -7%

Other systems, SE-facing, which I ought to be roughly matching:
20x200W Suntech Pluto/SB4000TL-20: -4%
16x250W Siliken/SB4000TL (slight shading): -8%
16x245W Sharp/SB4000TL-20: -11%
16x250W Sharp/SB4000: +12%
17x233W Bisol/SB4000 (slight shading): +28%
MEDIAN: -4%
MEAN: +3%



So is my system a dog performer?
I don't think it is; it shouldn't be expected to keep pace with Sanyo systems (especially not given that Sanyo are vastly more expensive), nor can it compete with South-facing systems at this time of year (especially as I'm between ESE and SE facing, so slightly worse than the nominal SE class which I fall into).

 

[danesol]

Out of interest, what kind of things have really caught your eye?

Mainly when some systems you would expect to do well, dont and you can only assume certain things from this as the data is unverified, others do better than you would expect, while others trail yours pretty evenly ( whether that be day by day hr by hr or simply end up with the same figs eventually) and are not the same kit.

The main surprise for me which surely must be down to just different weather patterns within a fairly local region, especially in areas where terrain can be quiet different is that you cant assume just because FRED down the road with a similar designed system ( spec wise ) to yours facing a similar direction is going to deliver roughly the same power unless this is you live somewhere like Norfolk where I would think weather is broadly the same for miles & miles