Electrician walked out - worth involving NICEIC?

[PeaceLily]

Long story short - our electrician walked out 2/3rds of the way through a complete rewire including a new fuse box. Is it worth complaining to NICEIC? I've got another electrician willing to finish the job; NICEIC have said they can't help with my complaint if that's the case but if the original electrician doesn't come back (he's not planning to), then where does that leave me? Any advice gratefully received

 

[buzzlightyear]

The only way is for another spark is to give you a Eicr cause the new spark not going to give a eic test cert cause he has not done the job in the beginning a Eicr in sure it comforms.
The other spark would have told you before he picks up a screw driver for you.
Have you paid the first spark and why did he walk away there is two sides of a story.

 

[davesparks]

Long story short - our electrician walked out 2/3rds of the way through a complete rewire including a new fuse box. Is it worth complaining to NICEIC?

No, this is a contractual matter and so nothing to do with the NICEIC.

The NICEIC assess a contractors work for compliance with regulations, best practice and industry standards, they also provide a system for certifying and registering completed domestic works.

Your issue, as you have described it appears to be around a broken contract, not compliance with electrical regulations.

 

[Petej999]

Long story short - our electrician walked out 2/3rds of the way through a complete rewire including a new fuse box. Is it worth complaining to NICEIC? I've got another electrician willing to finish the job; NICEIC have said they can't help with my complaint if that's the case but if the original electrician doesn't come back (he's not planning to), then where does that leave me? Any advice gratefully received

Why did the Electrician walk away? your interference or what?

 

[LukeD]

Next a forum members posts "I walked off a job" ..! But can the OP say what payments have been made to date etc . If the Electrician has not lost much , then either he is not getting on with the client or has been offered a much better paid job . I know many guys in various trades that are not confirming jobs at the moment until they can see which will earn them the most that week/day . Its viscous but they seem to do well

 

[PeaceLily]

Why did the Electrician walk away? your interference or what?

Not our interference (I found that question quite rude tbh). The fact that his team didn’t follow my very clear instructions and did their own thing is a completely different conversation and not the reason he walked out. Reading between the lines I think it was mainly a breakdown between him and our PM and we took the brunt of it. We’ve been left with a fusebox which has a sign on it saying not to turn on any more switches so no idea if it’s safe. All quite sad really

 

[PeaceLily]

To all those asking if the electrician was paid, we paid the PM who paid the electrician. If the money wasn’t forthcoming all the electrician had to do was ask us and we would’ve gladly paid him directly. No tradesperson should be out of pocket for doing a job

 

[LukeD]

He would be taking orders from the PM Not yourself .As this is where it normally gets messy a lot .Clients not understanding the "Chain of command" .If its a couple .only ONE gets to gives instructions .Its always the best way and written down in quotes etc . We ask if what the issue might be as we do this day in day out .We know way more about what goes on and believe us, Customers can really be a pain ! And think they hold all the cards . If your PM has paid money out for work done pro rata then your loss is contained to some degree .If the PM has paid out more then the issue you have is with the the PM etc . Is there not a simple reason explained in a PM /email /call etc that at least lets you know whats in his head ?

 

[buzzlightyear]

Reading between the lines I think it was mainly a breakdown between him and our PM and we took the brunt of it

well, if that's the case then is down to your PM, has they say to many cooks.
you employed the pm you should be on site to make sure there no miss communication.

 

[LukeD]

Its like "Hunt the Egg" !!! Do you know the reason he wont come back ? But in reality it makes no difference as there is no issue to be had with NICEIC or anyone else .As its just a civil matter . So almost nothing more anyone can offer . Its a shame >No one likes it when situations like this occurs

 

[PeaceLily]

No, this is a contractual matter and so nothing to do with the NICEIC.

The NICEIC assess a contractors work for compliance with regulations, best practice and industry standards, they also provide a system for certifying and registering completed domestic works.

Your issue, as you have described it appears to be around a broken contract, not compliance with electrical regulations.

Thank you for your response, much appreciated

 

[PeaceLily]

well, if that's the case then is down to your PM, has they say to many cooks.
you employed the pm you should be on site to make sure there no miss communication.

Who said we weren’t on site? Every time someone was there we were also there. Unfortunately the sparkies were also there when we weren’t as they had a key - our mistake

 

[PeaceLily]

He would be taking orders from the PM Not yourself .As this is where it normally gets messy a lot .Clients not understanding the "Chain of command" .If its a couple .only ONE gets to gives instructions .Its always the best way and written down in quotes etc . We ask if what the issue might be as we do this day in day out .We know way more about what goes on and believe us, Customers can really be a pain ! And think they hold all the cards . If your PM has paid money out for work done pro rata then your loss is contained to some degree .If the PM has paid out more then the issue you have is with the the PM etc . Is there not a simple reason explained in a PM /email /call etc that at least lets you know whats in his head ?

Yes there is. I have no beef with the electrician but also don’t appreciate being left in the lurch in a property that may not be safe. Thanks for your response, much appreciated.

 

[nicebutdim]

Clearly the question you came here to ask has since been answered but, from information contained in subsequent posts, I can't help wondering what value the project manager brings to this party.

 

[LukeD]

Clearly the question you came here to ask has since been answered but, from information contained in subsequent posts, I can't help wondering what value the project manager brings to this party.

THis 100 % .Ive just completed a Job that was been "run " by an interior designer" . She pulled me in for a meeting about "exactly " where sconce lights must go etc in the master bedroom and all the other electrical details .The manner in how she spoke was unreal .She treated everyone on site like it was their first day at school . Client now wants to know why she has to get out of bed and walk to the door in order to turn the sconce lights off when she wants to sleep !! The so called designer failed to have sconce switches on each side of the bed . Also no data cables to each room or telephone socket etc . Client aint happy . Brief was "Might want to rent " (high value) . No smoke alarm system fitted etc etc . And these people are charging fortunes for knowing SFA !

 

[UNG]

THis 100 % .Ive just completed a Job that was been "run " by an interior designer" . She pulled me in for a meeting about "exactly " where sconce lights must go etc in the master bedroom and all the other electrical details .The manner in how she spoke was unreal .She treated everyone on site like it was their first day at school . Client now wants to know why she has to get out of bed and walk to the door in order to turn the sconce lights off when she wants to sleep !! The so called designer failed to have sconce switches on each side of the bed . Also no data cables to each room or telephone socket etc . Client aint happy . Brief was "Might want to rent " (high value) . No smoke alarm system fitted etc etc . And these people are charging fortunes for knowing SFA !

Isn't that the modern way now

 

[James]

THis 100 % .Ive just completed a Job that was been "run " by an interior designer" . She pulled me in for a meeting about "exactly " where sconce lights must go etc in the master bedroom and all the other electrical details .The manner in how she spoke was unreal .She treated everyone on site like it was their first day at school . Client now wants to know why she has to get out of bed and walk to the door in order to turn the sconce lights off when she wants to sleep !! The so called designer failed to have sconce switches on each side of the bed . Also no data cables to each room or telephone socket etc . Client aint happy . Brief was "Might want to rent " (high value) . No smoke alarm system fitted etc etc . And these people are charging fortunes for knowing SFA !

Unfortunately, things like that, you just have to point the client in the direction of the designer who gave you the spec.
I have completed and tested everything according to the specifications that were given to me, unfortunately needs to be the default reply.

 

[LukeD]

Isn't that the modern way now

Unfortunately, things like that, you just have to point the client in the direction of the designer who gave you the spec.
I have completed and tested everything according to the specifications that were given to me, unfortunately needs to be the default reply.

Exactly . Client now wants to know why it was not mentioned to her before .I told her " DIva designer " gave me instructions and you told me to do as I was told . Now its all doable .But that wall paper sure cost a fortune !

 

[nicebutdim]

Unfortunately, things like that, you just have to point the client in the direction of the designer who gave you the spec.
I have completed and tested everything according to the specifications that were given to me, unfortunately needs to be the default reply.

That's just it - you're paid to work to a spec. Deviate from it and you're liable for any costs incurred to rectify your mistakes. It is expected that design has agreed by the client, that any changes need to be notified in advance and will be priced accordingly, or ammendments will be extra to the agreed price.


To be clear; this post isn't directed at the OP, but part of the wider discussion which generally ensues

 

[LukeD]

Who said we weren’t on site? Every time someone was there we were also there. Unfortunately the sparkies were also there when we weren’t as they had a key - our mistake

key barrel should be changed tomorrow.

 

[davesparks]

key barrel should be changed tomorrow.

Why?

 

[LukeD]

First rule as a customer .Change a lock after trades have finished if they have had access to a key etc .You never know if a duplicate has been cut (This includes all so called Banham security locks, they are easily copied ) You only need the night latch lock changed . Same for when Domestic staff leave etc .

 

[James]

First rule as a customer .Change a lock after trades have finished if they have had access to a key etc .You never know if a duplicate has been cut (This includes all so called Banham security locks, they are easily copied ) You only need the night latch lock changed . Same for when Domestic staff leave etc .

Its disappointing that I can’t argue with advice like that.
however, you could say the same for family and friends, you never know what they are up to either.

 

[nicebutdim]

Must remember to change the locks when my current butler's tenure expires

 

[ipf]

Isn't that the modern way now

Started long ago, it's just getting worse.
When it comes to it, there's only one boss and that's the owner. Be it a project manager, interior designer or the hands on contractor, in case the s*** hits the fan, they should be kept informed and up to date, whoever's in charge on site.

 

[LukeD]

Its disappointing that I can’t argue with advice like that.
however, you could say the same for family and friends, you never know what they are up to either.

Even worse !

 

[ipf]

Must remember to change the locks when my current butler's tenure expires

Don't forget the chauffeur and the limo keys.

 

[LukeD]

Started long ago, it's just getting worse.
When it comes to it, there's only one boss and that's the owner. Be it a project manager, interior designer or the hands on contractor, in case the s*** hits the fan, they should be kept informed and up to date, whoever's in charge on site.

Many projects the "chiefs" want the trades as far away from the client as possible .And in some cases the client would never ever talk to the "trades" . Ive worked on projects where if the client came . We all had to leave any part of the property they might visit and most certainly not to even "greet or smile " !

 

[ipf]

Many projects the "chiefs" want the trades as far away from the client as possible .And in some cases the client would never ever talk to the "trades" . Ive worked on projects where if the client came . We all had to leave any part of the property they might visit and most certainly not to even "greet or smile " !

That's a different point. altogether, though.....and understandable, in some cases.

 

[PeaceLily]

Clearly the question you came here to ask has since been answered but, from information contained in subsequent posts, I can't help wondering what value the project manager brings to this party.

And that is the million dollar question! If I knew then what I know now I would’ve PM’d the renovation myself - much less stress and I wouldn’t have lost most of the tradespeople he got in for me. Hindsight is a wonderful thing!

 

[buzzlightyear]

The moral of this story the some one Fluke up. So once the donkey kicked the door way open and escaped then it's down to the person locked the donkey in the beginning,

 

[LukeD]

And that is the million dollar question! If I knew then what I know now I would’ve PM’d the renovation myself - much less stress and I wouldn’t have lost most of the tradespeople he got in for me. Hindsight is a wonderful thing!

Bin the PM, Talk to the electrician and see if 2 calm heads can sort out whats required and life goers on ?

 

[buzzlightyear]

I had a customer once who talked to me if I was a ant, guess what moved on.

 

[plugsandsparks]

Top tip FWIW, if you really dont want to *iss off an electrician dont do the following:

1. Decide on outside lights / water feature / Summerhouse, after drives have been laid, plastering has been finished etc
2. In other words if you need extra ccts internally after plastering or externally after concrete / tarmac has been laid - expect the worst.
3. Dont change your mind on recessed lighting after its been installed, do your research
4. Dont have all the sockets fitted and then rock up with fitted furniture which covers half of them up, design your fitted furniture before letting the electrician loose.
5. Make sure the electrician is aware of ALL electrical devices that are to be installed, e.g. if you have under floor heating wet or dry make sure the electrician is aware
6. Tell the electrician of the kitchen and bathroom designs they are not Psychic..

I could go one but generally if the client is making requirements on the fly, it will end in tears. Ditto for other trades like kitchen and bathrooms and heating / ventilation and A/c

AND BREATHE

 

[ipf]

And that is the million dollar question! If I knew then what I know now I would’ve PM’d the renovation myself - much less stress and I wouldn’t have lost most of the tradespeople he got in for me. Hindsight is a wonderful thing!

That's it. Not all the shysters are out to make a quick buck.

 

[UNG]

Unfortunately there are too many tv shows shows where the interior designer appears to rule the roost making unilateral decisions without consulting the client or the clients are recommended to appoint a project manager, ok some of these projects turn out ok or you never get to see the fall out after the cameras finish rolling but there are also those jobs where the client has a fall out with some or all of those onsite resulting in a change of site manager, builder or other trades to progress the project to it's end

Site harmony can easily be destroyed by a bad site manager / client who doesn't communicate any changes to all the trades involved or materials don't turn up on time as dead time costs money and someone will be expected to pay for dead time or the trades will move on to the next paying job

Not done it for many years now but the "wouldn't it be nice if" triplicate book was a useful tool as any changes to the working plan could be documented and signed by the client, architect, site manager they got one copy, another copy was then priced to show any cost savings or increase and sent to the client, architect or project manager to issue an order or instruction to carry out the change or not and the last copy stayed in the book or was filed in our site diary. The best part was it kept our job costs tracked throughout and the client could keep within their budget or agree and accept any increased costs for the alterations

 

[Petej999]

Why did the Electrician walk away? your interference or what?

Not our interference (I found that question quite rude tbh). The fact that his team didn’t follow my very clear instructions and did their own thing is a completely different conversation and not the reason he walked out. Reading between the lines I think it was mainly a breakdown between him and our PM and we took the brunt of it. We’ve been left with a fusebox which has a sign on it saying not to turn on any more switches so no idea if it’s safe. All quite sad really

Sorry you took Umbridge at my question

 

[buzzlightyear]

Sorry you took Umbridge at my question

It's personally expected to ask a question
Has we do not the full story.
We are not judge or jury just to know the facts.

 

[brianmoooore]

6. Tell the electrician of the kitchen and bathroom designs

And then take the designs back to the customer (not PM, if there is one), just before you do anything irrevocable, make sure the customer fully understands them, and confirm that these are the FINAL designs, with absolutely no changes to follow, however insignificant those changes might appear to be by the customer.
The above has served me well on many occasions, when I've discovered I'm on 'kitchen plan A', while the kitchen designers are on 'kitchen plan D', with the installers on 'kitchen plan E'.
Customers have no concept that 'moving that wall unit a couple of inches to the right' puts the fixing brackets for the cabinet right over the safe zone chase for that socket below.

 

[LukeD]

Another reason why 1 x man set ups can work so well. They know whats going on and can work with a client easier . One of the best bathroom guys I know refuses to work with anyone else(Labourer etc ) and will not work alongside other trades. He is excellent , booked about 9 months ahead always and earns a fortune