Do I need to be registered with a competent scheme to be entitled to issue an EIC?

[m.fabry90]

I recently achieved my 2391-52 but i haven’t done the AM2 yet nor I’m registered with any competent scheme.
I don’t have the experience on installing new circuits and issuing EICs.
I work for a big corporation and I have been asked/forced to undertake the job of installing two new circuits for two 13A sockets in the electrical risers.
It’s in a commercial building and I don’t feel very confident about this.
My question is, am I entitled to do the installation, initial verification and issuing the EIC for each circuit?

 

[timhoward]

Welcome to the forum!
It's hard to tell whether you should be encouraged to go for it or praised for showing restraint. A bit more context would help determine which!
Are you on a training course (check out the trainees area if so)?
Is the "big corporation" your non-electrical day job or are you working for them as an apprentice?
Are you insured by some means (yourself or through a company)?

My question is, am I entitled to do the installation, initial verification and issuing the EIC for each circuit?

You have proved competence in testing and initial verification by passing 2391-52.
In this aspect, you should have some self-belief, this is no more difficult that testing a radial circuit on the rig in the exam.
It's commercial so part P doesn't apply, so not being in a scheme doesn't matter.

What are your main concerns regarding the design/installation aspect?

 

[m.fabry90]

Welcome to the forum!
It's hard to tell whether you should be encouraged to go for it or praised for showing restraint. A bit more context would help determine which!
Are you on a training course (check out the trainees area if so)?
Is the "big corporation" your non-electrical day job or are you working for them as an apprentice?
Are you insured by some means (yourself or through a company)?

You have proved competence in testing and initial verification by passing 2391-52.
In this aspect, you should have some self-belief, this is no more difficult that testing a radial circuit on the rig in the exam.
It's commercial so part P doesn't apply, so not being in a scheme doesn't matter.

What are your main concerns regarding the design/installation aspect?

Welcome to the forum!
It's hard to tell whether you should be encouraged to go for it or praised for showing restraint. A bit more context would help determine which!
Are you on a training course (check out the trainees area if so)?
Is the "big corporation" your non-electrical day job or are you working for them as an apprentice?
Are you insured by some means (yourself or through a company)?

You have proved competence in testing and initial verification by passing 2391-52.
In this aspect, you should have some self-belief, this is no more difficult that testing a radial circuit on the rig in the exam.
It's commercial so part P doesn't apply, so not being in a scheme doesn't matter.

What are your main concerns regarding the design/installation aspect?

Hello Tim,
Thank you for your quick response.
I’m glad to be part of this forum.
Those two new circuits need to be installed in two different electrical risers for two 13A single gang sockets.
I am a bit concerned about design aspect e.g. material to be used, as they will be located in the electrical risers, the needed material must be fire rated.
I work as a maintenance electrician for this company and this would be my very first time that I actually design, install and test a circuit.
I lack of experience so I believe that’s the reason why I’m not confident with the work.

 

[lozarus]

Just wanted to chip in to say I'm currently doing 2391. No AM2 either but have done 18th, also working on maintenance in commercial myself and have years of experience - but likewise never actually designed and installed a new cct entirely unsupervised. I'm finding myself having exactly the same "doubts" as you - even though I know I'm competent and am used to seeing many examples of previous poor work on our site - I still find myself doubting that i should be doing stuff!!

 

[m.fabry90]

I feel better knowing that I am not the only one out there having doubts about that.
Like you said though, I have seen cowboys works on commercial sites and I believe I can do better than that.
I recently achieved the 2391-52 and I’m currently working on my am2 assessment.
I also got my ecs card as experienced worker and planning to get out from maintenance and focus only on installations, inspection and testing preferably on construction sites, as I believe that’s the only way to gain experience.
I got too comfortable in maintenance and i think it’s time to do some work!
The problem is, I have noticed that there is lot of demand for maintenance electrician and not so much for installation electrician.
I also was thinking that I should probably go for electrician mate.
There is not much support or coaching out there regarding the career path, that’s the reason why I signed up in this forum.

 

[timhoward]

Going back to this job - are you having to run a cable up the riser or just horizontally into the riser?

 

[m.fabry90]

Going back to this job - are you having to run a cable up the riser or just horizontally into the riser?

I’m going to run it just horizontally into the riser.
It’s a very simple installation.

 

[timhoward]

I’m going to run it just horizontally into the riser.
It’s a very simple installation.

Obviously I haven't seen it, but I don't think it needs to be more complex than a metal clad socket and a couple of feet of galv conduit in a straight line until you are out of the riser.

 

[m.fabry90]

Obviously I haven't seen it, but I don't think it needs to be more complex than a metal clad socket and a couple of feet of galv conduit in a straight line until you are out of the riser.

That’s exactly what i planned to do.
Of course I’m going to use fire rated twin & earth cable.

 

[philectrical]

Welcome to the forum!
It's hard to tell whether you should be encouraged to go for it or praised for showing restraint. A bit more context would help determine which!
Are you on a training course (check out the trainees area if so)?
Is the "big corporation" your non-electrical day job or are you working for them as an apprentice?
Are you insured by some means (yourself or through a company)?

You have proved competence in testing and initial verification by passing 2391-52.
In this aspect, you should have some self-belief, this is no more difficult that testing a radial circuit on the rig in the exam.
It's commercial so part P doesn't apply, so not being in a scheme doesn't matter.

What are your main concerns regarding the design/installation aspect?

Do you need to be with a scheme to issue an EICR in a domestic property?

 

[timhoward]

Do you need to be with a scheme to issue an EICR in a domestic property?

No.

 

[loz2754]

Just to qualify what timhoward said, technically no, but still maybe.

If it's a private rental property, you need to be competent, according to the PRS 2020 legislation.
The recommendation to landlords is that they use a scheme member. If they don't want to use a scheme member, the onus is put on the landlord to check the competence of the electrician they use.

 

[philectrical]

Just to qualify what timhoward said, technically no, but still maybe.

If it's a private rental property, you need to be competent, according to the PRS 2020 legislation.
The recommendation to landlords is that they use a scheme member. If they don't want to use a scheme member, the onus is put on the landlord to check the competence of the electrician they use.

Ok thanks and thanks timhoward.

Every day is a learning day

 

[UNG]

The recommendation to landlords is that they use a scheme member. If they don't want to use a scheme member, the onus is put on the landlord to check the competence of the electrician they use.

Even if they use a scheme member I would say the onus is still with the landlord to verify the competence of who they employ to carry out an EICR as the schemes fall well short when it comes to competence to carry out EICR's from some of the examples I've seen

 

[philectrical]

Even if they use a scheme member I would say the onus is still with the landlord to verify the competence of who they employ to carry out an EICR as the schemes fall well short when it comes to competence to carry out EICR's from some of the examples I've seen

How would you recommend they do that? Just asking for certs etc?

 

[loz2754]

How would you recommend they do that? Just asking for certs etc?

And that's the million dollar question...
Personal recommendations go a long way, but other than that, it's pot luck.

 

[UNG]

How would you recommend they do that? Just asking for certs etc?

And that is and has been the contentious point as to how you achieve the end result for a while now
Does the 2391 on it's own prove ability to carry out an EICR
But then the 2391 without any experience of installation or fault finding is possibly worthless and no more than a piece of paper to prop up a lack of experience
Should a system be introduced for a number of supervised ECIR's before an operative can go solo

So how do you assess an operatives ability or a companies ability to produce an accurate and complete EICR. a scheme registered company can have any number of operatives any of whom could carry out an EICR under the companies registration without having the necessary experience to complete the task, even the QS might not pick up any errors when the EICR is reviewed

The debate could roll on indefinitely without any definitive answer or result as to how you find the right skilled person to carry out an EICR and that is the problem

 

[philectrical]

And that's the million dollar question...
Personal recommendations go a long way, but other than that, it's pot luck.

Was gonna say, a C&G Level 3 looks impressive to the layman on paper, but really it's not difficult to pass and doing so doesn't really mean much out in the real world. I worked with a lad who had passed his level 3 with flying colours and when he got on site couldn't do 2 way lighting. Said it 'just confuses me'.