NICEIC Certification Scheme Max ZS allowed on NICEIC cert seems wrong?

[Clark3169]

Customer I have picked had an extension wired by a non registered electrician so it had not been registered for part p
The LBA would not sign it off without part p so they sent there own testing engineer (sub contractor) and charged £300 to test 2 circuits
now if that's the general charge then surely it's best to register to provide a better service to the customer
2 or 3 jobs and the cost to register is cheaper than LBA charges

exactly!!

 

[Clark3169]

How many of these fires are in domestic premises and how many are in non domestic premises?

How can you distinguish between a fire caused by a bad connection and one caused by faulty parts?

fire investigation mate.

 

[ImpededLoop]

The home office is the place to get that info but speaking from experience I've seen many of these fires first hand. I am a firefighter and most of these fires were from plastic units installed before part p or by non registered people.

Fair play. I'll have a look at the Home Office on gov.uk to see what I can find.

Out of interest how many plastic consumer unit fires to you deal with from your station in a year (off the top of your head).

Another thought. Any pre Part P boards would be over ten years old, so how home they have gone for so long before overheating?

 

[Anthony S]

How many fires caused by candle's falling over ? how many fires caused my extension leads ?
How many fires caused by chip pans ?

The list is endless but reckon they out far weigh consumer units fires.

 

[Clark3169]

Right I changed my mind.

If a installation I worked on caused a fire then yes I would know about it as I would have been pulled up for arson due to the fact I always a relevant certificate as in BS7671 sonthey would be able to find out who installed it.

Its the ones who dont issue certs that are the problem, now tell me how does Part P stop this happening?

It doesn't stop it happening it reduces it.

 

[trev]

The semi trained Tesco guys do not necessarily install safe work though, they get the vast majority of their experience in a workshop on a big lump of wood and are then released into the world with some bunch of muppets telling them they're competent. Some will be and some will not. Some will realise they're out of their depth, some will not.
DIY Dave has not been stopped by this farce. I was in a pub just a few nights ago and someone started to crack on to me about electrical work. A guy over heard and suggested the guy talk to someone at the end of the bar who "isn't an electrician but he knows what he's doing" DIY Dve is alive and well mate and still carries on with his botch jobs. It may well have worked where you are but it sure as hell hasn't worked here.
Now, as a trained fire officer you must have undergone some pretty strenuous, intense and demanding training before you were allowed out in the big red truck. How would you and your workmates feel if I was suddenly foisted on you after only a quarter of the training you had to undergo? Of course you'd object because I wouldn't have a fraction of the knowledge you lads have. I'd be a danger to you and to myself but if some muppet somewhere said I was suddenly equal to you then I'm good to go right?
I think you're missing the political aspect of what's going on behind the scenes Clark. The CPS operators were given a chance to deem people competent who had years of experience but no paper quals. They then spotted this as a cash cow, they abused this by badging up anyone and now despite having the failure pointed out to them in BIG HUGE LETTERS they refuse to kill the goose that laid (and keeps on laying) the golden egg.
A proper scheme of registration and licencing for all electricians modelled on Gas Safe will be something that ALL electricians will happily get behind as long as it has a single regulator who is not motivated by money and who has long sharp teeth and the resources and inclination to use them against anyone who transgresses.

 

[davesparks]

First off mate no I am not saying you are incompetent at all. Second you wouldn't message tilt have found out if any of your installs had ever caught fire (I'm sure they haven't though) my point is your a fully qualified spark and install very safe work, the semi trained Tescos guy will install safe work to it's the third category that you missed out which is DIY Dave who will cause the fires and since part p has been introduced it has reduced the number of DIY Daves thus less fires. The experience I was referring to is not you lack of electrical experience it's was the fire experience. I'm a fire officer and have seen the effect part p has had first hand.

Prove that less DIY work has taken place.

Prove that the semi trained idiots do not cause fires!

I have first hand experience of working with some of these people who have done the 5 week courses and have been registered by the scams as being competant, I can tell you they are anything but!

 

[Leesparkykent]

So how does the above concern me ? I issue Certificates and don't belong to a scheme and Building Control sign off my work and my Certificate is given a code number on their system. Therefore I am on record with them as doing the work.

I thought you was with napit?

 

[Clark3169]

How many fires caused by candle's falling over ? how many fires caused my extension leads ?
How many fires caused by chip pans ?

The list is endless but reckon they out far weigh consumer units fires.

Actually no they don't and the list is not endless...

1. Smoking causes
2. White goods such as dishwashers, washing machines & tumble dryers
3. Electrical installations.

 

[davesparks]

Thats simply not true as its part of my job to accurately report these figures and I've seen first hand the positive effect part p has had. I know you love to hate it because it's an expense and a inconvenience to be tested etc... but you can't change the facts that it has made things safer.

So give us some links to these figures, let us all see how much of a difference part P has made.

None of us will take your word for it, none of us know who you are, you could be the CEO of NICEIC for all we know

 

[Anthony S]

I thought you was with napit?

That was years ago when I was doing a bit for my mate with the NIC and joined Napit at the same time. They took the money then came out and see me about 3 months later lol showed then a spur in my shed lol

 

[telectrix]

Now, as a trained fire officer you must have undergone some pretty strenuous, intense and demanding training before you were allowed out in the big red truck. How would you and your workmates feel if I was suddenly foisted on you after only a quarter of the training you had to undergo? Of course you'd object because I wouldn't have a fraction of the knowledge you lads have. I'd be a danger to you and to myself but if some muppet somewhere said I was suddenly equal to you then I'm good to go right?

totally agree. it's like training a guy to use a fire extinguisher and then saying he's a competent firefighter.

 

[Anthony S]

Actually no they don't and the list is not endless...

1. Smoking causes
2. White goods such as dishwashers, washing machines & tumble dryers
3. Electrical installations.

No disrespect, but fitting a new consumer unit won't sort out the 1 & 2 above.

 

[trev]

Clark do me a favour please. Have a trawl about on here and see how many threads there are about how to calculate maximum demand or apply diversity. These are "Janet and John" subjects to any properly qualified electrician.
See how many threads there are about TT systems that are woefully inadequate. Once again, a properly functioning TT is something that we all should be able to install.
See how many threads there are from people not being able to understand why an RCD is tripping because they don't understand what it is, what it's supposed to do and how it does what it does.
See how many threads there are about simple faults and how many of those start with the words "I'm a fully qualified domestic installer but ....."

 

[Clark3169]

The semi trained Tesco guys do not necessarily install safe work though, they get the vast majority of their experience in a workshop on a big lump of wood and are then released into the world with some bunch of muppets telling them they're competent. Some will be and some will not. Some will realise they're out of their depth, some will not.
DIY Dave has not been stopped by this farce. I was in a pub just a few nights ago and someone started to crack on to me about electrical work. A guy over heard and suggested the guy talk to someone at the end of the bar who "isn't an electrician but he knows what he's doing" DIY Dve is alive and well mate and still carries on with his botch jobs. It may well have worked where you are but it sure as hell hasn't worked here.
Now, as a trained fire officer you must have undergone some pretty strenuous, intense and demanding training before you were allowed out in the big red truck. How would you and your workmates feel if I was suddenly foisted on you after only a quarter of the training you had to undergo? Of course you'd object because I wouldn't have a fraction of the knowledge you lads have. I'd be a danger to you and to myself but if some muppet somewhere said I was suddenly equal to you then I'm good to go right?
I think you're missing the political aspect of what's going on behind the scenes Clark. The CPS operators were given a chance to deem people competent who had years of experience but no paper quals. They then spotted this as a cash cow, they abused this by badging up anyone and now despite having the failure pointed out to them in BIG HUGE LETTERS they refuse to kill the goose that laid (and keeps on laying) the golden egg.
A proper scheme of registration and licencing for all electricians modelled on Gas Safe will be something that ALL electricians will happily get behind as long as it has a single regulator who is not motivated by money and who has long sharp teeth and the resources and inclination to use them against anyone who transgresses.

I agree with what you are saying and I'm not saying it's stopped DIY Dave but I am saying its reduced it. I understand your point about the fast track training thing not always being adequate but to the right person it can be. When part p was introduced originally I too thought the same as many of the views expressed here today however as I see the result of bad wirring and I see the stats and indeed pay a part in collating them (before the powers that be get hold of them) I know that on the whole it genuinely has had a positive effect on safety. As mush as we all want to hate it or improve it to bring it inline with gas safe or to scrap it the truth is it does help. I'm gonna hit the sack now so don't mean to be rude if I don't reply. Ta.

 

[trev]

Now, as a trained fire officer you must have undergone some pretty strenuous, intense and demanding training before you were allowed out in the big red truck. How would you and your workmates feel if I was suddenly foisted on you after only a quarter of the training you had to undergo? Of course you'd object because I wouldn't have a fraction of the knowledge you lads have. I'd be a danger to you and to myself but if some muppet somewhere said I was suddenly equal to you then I'm good to go right?

Good night, sleep well mate. When you get back though, I'd welcome a response to that bit above because that to me is the crux of the matter (in a round about way)

 

[Clark3169]

Clark do me a favour please. Have a trawl about on here and see how many threads there are about how to calculate maximum demand or apply diversity. These are "Janet and John" subjects to any properly qualified electrician.
See how many threads there are about TT systems that are woefully inadequate. Once again, a properly functioning TT is something that we all should be able to install.
See how many threads there are from people not being able to understand why an RCD is tripping because they don't understand what it is, what it's supposed to do and how it does what it does.
See how many threads there are about simple faults and how many of those start with the words "I'm a fully qualified domestic installer but ....."

Ok one last reply before bed. Your actually making my point for me. My point is those people are taking the time to find out and learn and are concerned to get it right and to expand on their knowledge so that they can find & fix these faults. They have had some input and are now trying to get more where as before they may have just "had a go" I'm not saying it's perfect but it has helped and some training & knowledge is better than none.

 

[Leesparkykent]

The semi trained Tesco guys do not necessarily install safe work though, they get the vast majority of their experience in a workshop on a big lump of wood and are then released into the world with some bunch of muppets telling them they're competent. Some will be and some will not. Some will realise they're out of their depth, some will not.
DIY Dave has not been stopped by this farce. I was in a pub just a few nights ago and someone started to crack on to me about electrical work. A guy over heard and suggested the guy talk to someone at the end of the bar who "isn't an electrician but he knows what he's doing" DIY Dve is alive and well mate and still carries on with his botch jobs. It may well have worked where you are but it sure as hell hasn't worked here.
Now, as a trained fire officer you must have undergone some pretty strenuous, intense and demanding training before you were allowed out in the big red truck. How would you and your workmates feel if I was suddenly foisted on you after only a quarter of the training you had to undergo? Of course you'd object because I wouldn't have a fraction of the knowledge you lads have. I'd be a danger to you and to myself but if some muppet somewhere said I was suddenly equal to you then I'm good to go right?
I think you're missing the political aspect of what's going on behind the scenes Clark. The CPS operators were given a chance to deem people competent who had years of experience but no paper quals. They then spotted this as a cash cow, they abused this by badging up anyone and now despite having the failure pointed out to them in BIG HUGE LETTERS they refuse to kill the goose that laid (and keeps on laying) the golden egg.
A proper scheme of registration and licencing for all electricians modelled on Gas Safe will be something that ALL electricians will happily get behind as long as it has a single regulator who is not motivated by money and who has long sharp teeth and the resources and inclination to use them against anyone who transgresses.

DIY dave has always been around even before the invention of part P lol.

 

[trev]

DIY dave has always been around even before the invention of part P lol.

My whole point Lee, he's always been here and always will be because there's always some knacker that will happily get a job done for the price of a packet of tabs and a couple of pints.

 

[trev]

Ok one last reply before bed. Your actually making my point for me. My point is those people are taking the time to find out and learn and are concerned to get it right and to expand on their knowledge so that they can find & fix these faults. They have had some input and are now trying to get more where as before they may have just "had a go" I'm not saying it's perfect but it has helped and some training & knowledge is better than none.

I'm not really making your point for you mate though, what I'm getting at is that these people are being churned out by the training centres and the CPS operators in their thousands. They're realising that they're clueless and so they type something into google and find this place. They then think they've found the promised land, without the internet they'd be totally screwed. Up poo creek without a bloody canoe let alone a paddle