Possibly just me but i just get really insulted

[DPG]

Hello guys

I have started getting emails from MEN at the age of 30 wanting to be my apprentice, the whole thing is insulting.
im sorry your job in finance did not work out and you think you can be a fully qualified spark in 1 year. it took me 5 years of graft to become a fully served spark in 2011 man and boy.QUOTE]

I'm glad I'm not your apprentice - you seem to have a bit of an attitude problem judging by your post. Mind you, I'm over 40 so you'd be VERY insulted by me I expect.

 

[FatAlan]

The problem with the Electrical Trainee is that a lot of those guys may not have a lot of choice or may even have been conned into doing them with false expectations. You just have to see the posts on here.
It’s extremely patronising and insulting. This is a complex trade that like most careers requires the accumulation of experience. I get the impression that the main issue is that a lot of experienced time served sparks are feeling threatened by the popularity of their trade and those that are falling over themselves to get experience. Take a look at yourselves and your business and decide where you want to be. One of these budding old apprentices might for instance have a diary full of contacts and future business. I’d be taking advantage if there are guys out there willing to work for nothing. Yes, there’ll be the odd numpty but I’ve come across plenty of qualified idiots who I won’t use again. Supply and demand! Natural market forces apply whether you like it or not. I’d rather employ an approved Electrical Trainee who knew the regs and did the job correctly than a cynical old JIB registered has been who took the p***

 

[simon bartlett]

God forbid someone wanting to change careers. 30 years old ? why doesn't he just give up and find a hole to die in eh?

 

[simon bartlett]

Adults new to the trade wanting to join a cps scheme are required to complete a portfolio which typically requires 12 -24 months working for a skilled electrician. I see no issue with it if people are aware of their limitations. There are good experiences electricians and crappy experienced electricians .

 

[Christo]

Hello guys

I have started getting emails from MEN at the age of 30 wanting to be my apprentice, the whole thing is insulting.
im sorry your job in finance did not work out and you think you can be a fully qualified spark in 1 year. it took me 5 years of graft to become a fully served spark in 2011 man and boy.

Is this a new phenomenon?

Get over yourself

 

[TeeCee]

Making statements like the OP - and I understand they have their reasons - is nevertheless somewhat ignorant of certain realities and situations.

I'd say there are / will be a number of people (not just men) in their 30's (and older) going down this road. More power to them, I say.

When these people were children and teenagers, the educational system had been politically skewed towards churning out service industry fodder. The spotlight was very much moved away from traditional occupations, to the detriment of all concerned. This generated a swathes young people being prepared for an economy that did not eventually deliver as politically expected, certainly post-2008.

Although originally unveiled in 1993, The 'Modern Apprenticeship' was not effectively introduced until 1995-96, with steady growth from that point on. So, someone leaving school at that point was channelled into either A Levels or perhaps a BTEC / GNVQ. So these thirty-somethings probably never got an adequate opportunity to explore more traditional crafts - only garnering a flavour later in life. I'm not saying cry for them, but there's no need to look disdainfully.

But enough of the history lessons. I have a slight suspicion that the OP might have been pretendng to live under a bridge. If so, I'm sure they're quite pleased.

 

[sparksburnout]

It's not always the young persons fault. They have had it drilled into them by Tony Bliar and Co. that the only thing worth doing is to go to University and get a useless degree in an xxxxxology. Trades are regarded by a lot as some sort of poor alternative.

 

[Pastyspark]

From my experience a mature apprentice is a lot more enthusiastic to learn. Unfortunately you have to pay them more per hour, but once they've got enough experience to work on their own you can book them out at a higher rate.
Ive had builders moan about leaving younger apprentices in site compared to older lads even with the same experience.
I do agree that the Electrical Trainee shouldn't get full rate from qualifying. They need the experience as well as the qualifications to be sparks.

 

[sparksburnout]

Adults new to the trade wanting to join a cps scheme are required to complete a portfolio which typically requires 12 -24 months working for a skilled electrician. I see no issue with it if people are aware of their limitations. There are good experiences electricians and crappy experienced electricians .

Just out of interest Simon have the rules changed recently then? I thought they only checked qualifications and then did an assessment.

 

[telectrix]

and make sure that your cheque clears.

 

[Rpa07]

Just out of interest Simon have the rules changed recently then? I thought they only checked qualifications and then did an assessment.

Those two go hand in hand in my opinion. An assessor is looking for experience as well as the quals, not just 1 out of 2. Enough on the forum have let us know how thorough the Stroma assessments are, they would not let inexperienced onto the scheme, qualifications recent or old, cheque clearing or not, of that I am sure (pretty sure!)

 

[Edtwozeronine]

I'm on this rocky road myself, 3rd year of a city and guilds and started with the notification I'd be qualified after 3 years. After reading through the disclaimer though I found I will only be qualified as an improver/electricians mate.

I went the useless degree route expecting that people would at least see it on my CV impressed that I wasn't a drop-out. No such luck, it's been minimum wage -------- all the way to 39 years of age.

But here's the thing, I still have at least 40 years on the planet until I curl up and die. So how about a bit more positivity for us wannabe electricians!

Not everybody finds their path at 16 you know, it drives me bonkers that in this world people who are just trying to find their way have so many roadblocks put in front of them. In this case I'd say ageism and for the 1 young lady on our course probably sexism.

At least I did enough research to not end up on a 5 week wonder course eh?

 

[sparksburnout]

Those two go hand in hand in my opinion. An assessor is looking for experience as well as the quals, not just 1 out of 2. Enough on the forum have let us know how thorough the Stroma assessments are, they would not let inexperienced onto the scheme, qualifications recent or old, cheque clearing or not, of that I am sure (pretty sure!)

One of my Stroma assessors was a really nice, down to earth Guy (Gary Lane). He said that they do fail quite a few, more than you would think.

 

[sparksburnout]

I'm on this rocky road myself, 3rd year of a city and guilds and started with the notification I'd be qualified after 3 years. After reading through the disclaimer though I found I will only be qualified as an improver/electricians mate.

I went the useless degree route expecting that people would at least see it on my CV impressed that I wasn't a drop-out. No such luck, it's been minimum wage ******** all the way to 39 years of age.

But here's the thing, I still have at least 40 years on the planet until I curl up and die. So how about a bit more positivity for us wannabe electricians!

Not everybody finds their path at 16 you know, it drives me bonkers that in this world people who are just trying to find their way have so many roadblocks put in front of them. In this case I'd say ageism and for the 1 young lady on our course probably sexism.

At least I did enough research to not end up on a 5 week wonder course eh?

I don't think most people would criticise you at all, it is the short course people, and the companies supplying the courses, that get the stick, and rightly so. With your attitude, I am sure you will find a person or company to take you on, once you have done your bit, and let you gain experience. Experience is the key to all this, something which is obviously seriously lacking in a lot of cases. You only have to look at some of the recent posts to see that.

 

[richard12]

The only problem that I have with ''older'' apprentices in my experience is that they are very keen to learn, ask lots of questions about marketing and where the best place is to advertise, pricing etc. You then notice in the local paper them advertising in direct competition with you.

 

[UNG]

This is nothing new for those of us who were around in the 80's the government Skillcentres offered 6 month courses it produced some good lads and some who got the qualification but were useless.
The biggest problem I had was some of the Skillcentre lads I employed were some years older than me and took the line they knew more than I did when it came to fault finding and how to solve installation problems.
We generally gave them 3 - 6 months probation to prove themselves some were willing to learn others just turned up for the money and only went to the Skillcentre to avoid losing their dole money
The big problem is that none of these quick courses really address the skill shortage in industry they are all purely aimed at the saturated domestic single phase market

 

[Gavin John Hyde]

Adults new to the trade wanting to join a cps scheme are required to complete a portfolio which typically requires 12 -24 months working for a skilled electrician. I see no issue with it if people are aware of their limitations. There are good experiences electricians and crappy experienced electricians .

Portfolio? you just have to have your 17th edition and do a notifiable type job in your own home such as change your CU to join elecsa... you dont need 2394/2395 etc as they get you to sit a multi choice online test instead with the books next to you... i know a ex squaddie in Taunton who has done just that so he can sign off on his own projects as him and his old man are property developers. The only electrical courses he has is the Electrical Trainee stuff with basic testing and 17th and prior to that he was a mechanic in the army. I was surprised just how easy it was to join the scheme.

 

[sparksburnout]

Portfolio? you just have to have your 17th edition and do a notifiable type job in your own home such as change your CU to join elecsa... you dont need 2394/2395 etc as they get you to sit a multi choice online test instead with the books next to you... i know a ex squaddie in Taunton who has done just that so he can sign off on his own projects as him and his old man are property developers. The only electrical courses he has is the Electrical Trainee stuff with basic testing and 17th and prior to that he was a mechanic in the army. I was surprised just how easy it was to join the scheme.

I think Stroma must be a bit more discerning. From the initial assessment I had I can't see anyone who has only been on a 5 week course getting in. Don't they insist on I&T quals now?

 

[Gavin John Hyde]

I think Stroma must be a bit more discerning. From the initial assessment I had I can't see anyone who has only been on a 5 week course getting in. Don't they insist on I&T quals now?

It seems Stroma are much stricter on who they let in. All my mate had was 2392 no 94/95 so guess some of the schemes are quite lax about it and must judge you on what you show on the day and not being a bit backwards when having a conversation with the assessor. We all know that its not about certificates though i have come across some very skilled labourers and mates who are more competent than some jib graded sparks. it comes down to real intelligence in that they can apply themselves and problem solve things not just memorise things for exams. I have worked with some guys who have done fast track courses and it does seem popular for ex forces guys as the mod pay for it, with a mix of their forces trade skills and this they seem quite on the ball, very methodical and accept their limitations.. on the other hand i have come across joe bloggs the Electrical Trainee who must have decided when down the pub one night he will be an electrician. i wouldnt trust them to change a bulb.

 

[DC-backfrom the past]

ok interesting debate here ... I am time served and mostly been away from the trade fulltime for years. I kept my toes in the water and helped others that are fulltime sparks during the time away. ie helping out now and again.
I 've recently done the 17 th edition, pat testing and ins and testing course recently ...mostly to get back up to speed .
These courses attracted a lot of kitchen fitters, plumbers etc... people trying to upskill and make a few extra quid .
The only ones that passed the city and guilds were sparks
the pass mark on most of these courses is now 80%.
I think they maybe have realised a lot of people were doing short courses and then being let loose into a technical area .
the tutors said they (city and guilds)had raised the pass mark recently due to many incidents happening involving 'qualified' people
maybe the quick courses have been realised as not adequate