Problem with Home Electrics or Appliance - please help

[leo1]

Hi guys, I hope you can help me. I am an engineer but not on electricity, so I apologise if I am using incorrect terminology. Today for the first time, while my dishwasher was on, I heard a clicking noise and it stopped. The noise came from the relevant MCB on the consumer unit (which also feeds the integrated Fridge and Extractor fan in my kitchen), as it interrupted the electricity to the circuit. I put the wall-switch for the dishwasher in the off position and went back to the consumer unit to restore electricity on that MCB. Power came back on on the Fridge and Extractor. Then I tried the wall-switch for the dishwasher and power stayed on. I set the program again on the dishwasher, closed the door and waited. After its initial draining of the remaining water from the previously failed cycle it sounded as if it started to work like normal again but it immediately caused the power to go off again. I have tried a few times and repeatedly obtained the same behaviour. I should also mention that the dishwasher has been emitting a mild burnt-like smell every time it was in use for the last few months, the smell similar to when an electronic component burns on a PCB (printed circuit board). So, do you think I have a problem with the dishwasher or with the connectivity to it and how can I ascertain which one of the two it is? I am worried about calling an electrician who would charge me to then tell me the problem is my dishwasher when I could have just replaced it for say, £200.
Is there anything else I could try? The damn dishwasher is integrated so I cannot see behind it or how it is connected...

Many thanks

Leo

 

[mechelec]

An electrician will be able to tell you for certain what the problem is very quickly and shouldn't cost too much.
it could be a bad connection at the plug or socket behind the unit so best get the fault confirmed before lashing out £200 for nothing

 

[telectrix]

sounds like the dishwaher, but getting a sprks in to confirm or disprove should not cost more than £40-£50, so IMO, that is the best way forward.

 

[Engineer54]

Can you buy an integrated dishwasher for 200 quid?? Hmmmm, ....I don't think so!! Try nearer doubling the 200 and you'll get somewhere near it!! lol!!

 

[i=p/u]

well id say its the dishwasher, ive heard of these things going on fire, mines hasnt but my tumble dryer nearly did, set me smoke alarms off.. as you say you have unplugged it and it goes back to normal, hint hint

 

[telectrix]

my dishwasher is 60 years old and still going strong. she's a good cook as well.

 

[leo1]

Thank you both. £40-50 seems like an awful lot of money for ascertaining a fault (rather than fixing one). Would you be able to give me any tips on what I can look for to diagnose the fault? Is it worth dislodging the dishwasher from its supporting casing to see whats happening behind it?

 

[leo1]

In Comet you can buy both integrated and stand alone dishwashers for £200 and below too. That is the first site I checked, I can therefore assume there are other sites with even better offers too. And by the way I am not talking about indesit or other cheap brands, I saw a Baumatic for £229, integrated...

 

[telectrix]

an awful lot??? try getting your car diagnosed at a main dealer £90+VAT, your solicitor to see you for an hour and write a letter £275 + VAT. get real.

 

[Engineer54]

In Comet you can buy both integrated and stand alone dishwashers for £200 and below too. That is the first site I checked, I can therefore assume there are other sites with even better offers too. And by the way I am not talking about indesit or other cheap brands, I saw a Baumatic for £229, integrated...

Must be seconds then, or maybe what they call ''Grey'' goods!!

 

[Spazz]

straight away thats the dishwasher.

You say its been smelling for the last few months - clear give away
You say all works fine when the wall switch for the dishwasher is off (double isolation switch - I hope!) - another clear sign its the dishwasher

Turn the dishwasher off and try it then - if the MCB stays on and does not trip, thats confirmed it.

Buy a new dishwasher and that will solve all your problems.

Otherwise send it to a repair, but if you say its smelt like its burning then Im sure theres a bigger problem, most probably the circuit board has gone, and they are more than the dishwasher in the first place.

The clicking you heard would probably have been the relays clicking, due to a lack of power.


I wouldn't mess with it if you dont know what your doing - if you do take the back off and have a look at the circuit board and all electrical components you can see, use your nose and see where the burning is coming from - MAKE SURE ITS UNPLUGGED!!! both on the water and mains!!!!

 

[derek preece]

You could do an Insulation Resistance test using properly calibrated equipment - that would only cost 300-600 pounds or so

 

[Spazz]

To be completely honest as Leo has said hes not a sparky, and probably no experience as hes asking for advice on what to look for - no offence

Buy a new one from comit (as said £200 - mine cost £220 with free delivery!)

Dont mess with it, water and electric do not mix well at all!

 

[derek preece]

If it was mine and I wasn't a sparky, I'd probably check the warranty of the device, if it was no longer under warranty then I'd make sure the power was off and the device was disconnected, then open it up and take a quick look for obvious signs of burning or loose wires hanging around.

 

[telectrix]

or get your friendly local pikey to nick it for scrap, then claim off insurance.

 

[Knobhead]

Just leave the old unit by the gate, I’ll guarantee it’s gone by morning.

Just had my lounge re carpeted, nowhere to store the excess underlay or carpet so put it in the garden. Phoned the council to take it away, and then phoned the council to say don’t bother. It had gone in the time of a phone call!

 

[leo1]

Thanks for the time to read and for your input, with the exception of a minority of you who showed resistance to help, clearly because you cannot tolerate the fact that some issues can be resolved (or at the very least assessed) by intelligent individuals, not just paid-for electricians. The Hotpoint dishwasher I have came with the house so I don’t know how old it is, but my guess is 3-4 years old as the rubber seals seem a bit worn. So, a change would be in order any way.

@ telectrix = you failed to quote how much footballers or celebrities are paid to do little things too. Yes, I think £50 is too much for a 5 minute assessment which does not actually resolve any problems. Good luck getting any business with that attitude.

@Engineer54 = your surprise at the prices I quoted clearly shows your ignorance. When you don’t know what you are saying it is always best to keep quiet, you only embarrass yourself. Just to enlighten you, know that you can get first class goods at Comet or any similar UK store for very little this days. And have you ever heard of online shopping? I think not, look it up, you will find that prices for white goods bought online are often even cheaper than retailers on the high street. Or do you need to challenge my price quotation because that’s how you treat your customers, i.e. by telling them rubbish like "well, if you need to replace the dishwasher it will cost you £400 minimum". You are the example of why I am afraid to call a person to come into my house to fix things who has not been highly recommended. Good trademen suffer from the dishonest and ignorant ones out there.

 

[Spazz]

@ telectrix = you failed to quote how much footballers or celebrities are paid to do little things too. Yes, I think £50 is too much for a 5 minute assessment which does not actually resolve any problems. Good luck getting any business with that attitude.

Leo I think you need an attitude change!

We are electricians, hence we all (I hope) have paid a very large amount of money to get where we are not including how much we have spent on tools.

As an idea I am just starting up and I have already spent £7,000.00. That includes all the tools, extra courses (17th Edition and PAT) as well as the van, insurance, supplies as in cables and the registration with Napit!

Do you actually know how long it will take to assess your item correctly! - You say it looks a little worn it might need replacing - big word MIGHT!!!

I will tell you now that if you have smelt burning then the circuit board is fried! and changing a seal would not make any difference - a seal would certainly not make the MCB trip!


Plus we charge by the hour even if we are only there for 5 minuets! By the time we have gotten there, the fuel, the insurance, the wear and tear on our vehicles.

I charge £25 call out which includes the 1st hour as I live in the middle of town anything outside gets extra charges, the £15 per hour - as Im new to it all and dont have the experience of some on here and doing the trade.

Yes there are some cowboys from the wild west who would rip everyone off but there are some very decent people on here as well.

I will take you just got up on the wrong side of the bed this morning.

 

[KINKY]

@ telectrix = you failed to quote how much footballers or celebrities are paid to do little things too. Yes, I think £50 is too much for a 5 minute assessment which does not actually resolve any problems. Good luck getting any business with that attitude.

It’s not just 5 minutes is it, you are been naive.

Fair enough if you have an electrician who lives in your spare room.

 

[DPG]

I think Leo1 may have well and truly p****d on his chips now. Daz

 

[Des 56]

Just leave the old unit by the gate, I’ll guarantee it’s gone by morning.

Just had my lounge re carpeted, nowhere to store the excess underlay or carpet so put it in the garden. Phoned the council to take it away, and then phoned the council to say don’t bother. It had gone in the time of a phone call!

Thats the same as my own experience
Just took my cast iron Parkray out with all the bits and pieces
What to do with it ?
Left it outside in the lane.went back inside and had a cup of tea, was gone within minutes

 

[leo1]

Nicholas - As I said, I am an engineer myself (on computer science) and I appreciate the effort you refer to in order to get started, but I cannot charge people £50 to tell them they have to spend £250 on a new graphics card after a 5-10 minute investigation. It just doesn't sound fair to them and I do not do business that way.But this is now turning into a different discussion - which we should perhaps no longer entertain. Anyway, thanks for your input.

And thanks to all else who have provided with advice.

Leo

 

[Von Vardo]

Depending on where you are in the country it would probably be a fair bit less than £50 to have someone check out the wiring.

Or, you could call an appliance repair "engineer" - Bosch charge about £90 just to turn up.

 

[a1guvner]

An Allowance of 30mins to site, upto an hour on site, allowance of 30 mins travel from site, Just covering costs i reckon

 

[telectrix]

leo. if you brought the dishwasher and your house wiring to me, i would charge a lot less. however, due to the costs involved in running a van, estimated by HMRC at around 45p/mile, these costs have to be covered. travel time is often more than time on site as well. add PL insurance, test equipment cost and annual calibration, professional body membership, regs. books, etc.,etc. it costs half of what i would charge you before i earn a penny.

 

[Knobhead]

Leo, good-bye. Please close the door behind you.

You have insulted some of the best tradesmen you could hope to find. As someone said you’ve p**sed on your chips.

 

[leo1]

You have insulted some of the best tradesmen you could hope to find.

Those who feel insulted is beacuse they are most certainly not the best tradesmen. I have shown my gratitude to those who helped and have contradicted the innacuracies of the advice from some who instead of helping, were talking without knowing. Next time Tony, use the time to help those who seek help instead of making generalised personal statement like this and waste time. Good bye sir.

 

[DPG]

Has he still not gone yet? Daz

 

[Knobhead]

You do not know the people you have insulted, I do.

Now would you please close the door behind you.

 

[BlueToBits]

Those who feel insulted is beacuse they are most certainly not the best tradesmen. I have shown my gratitude to those who helped and have contradicted the innacuracies of the advice from some who instead of helping, were talking without knowing. Next time Tony, use the time to help those who seek help instead of making generalised personal statement like this and waste time. Good bye sir.

It's not about the insult, Leo, nor is it about the value of technical expertise, It's simple business economics. Wages, Fuel, Tax, Advertising, Office supplies, Plant, Admin, etc. An unknown fault call-out cannot be booked for less than an hour. You, as an engineer, must realise that fault diagnosis often takes 99% of an unpredictable time on the job. To use your own scenario, it takes much longer to determine that the fault is the actual graphics card, and not a corrupt driver, VGA cable, connector monitor, edge connector, memory conflict or setting, etc, than it does to swap out the card. Especially when you cant see whats happening because the monitor does not work. Anyone with any nous can exchange a video card in a few seconds. I would be paying you to determine with 100% certainty that I indeed needed a new £500 'SuperFXVideoNutterBlaster" card, and not a £1.99 VGA cable.

It's very possible that you have a burned out or damaged heater element in you dishwasher. This may have taken out the actuator switch in the programmer or thermostat. It may also be prudent to replace the MCB as it sounds like it has been placed under excessive stress for prolonged periods. You may also want to consider fitting an RCD/RCBO which, aside from the safety benefits, would detect such faults much earlier, reducing the likelihood of subsequent damage.

As a general rule, if you smell burning when using any electrical equipment you should immediately switch it off and leave it off until the cause can be determined and corrected. Failure to do so will at best cause further damage, and could cause a fire.

 

[Geordie Spark]

Leo:Have you considered a change of career?Maybe there's a vacancy in the Diplomatic Corps. that you'd like to apply for.

 

[i=p/u]

they say 45p per mile so they can tax ou on it,, over 40p isint it

 

[leo1]

Thanks BlueToBits both for your fair argument about my scenario and for the later advice regarding my actual fault.

 

[richy3333]

Leo1 this is a forum for electricians to discuss issues within their own industry. Whilst it is open to anyone that wishes to join it is not a FREE alternative to having electrical faults/issues diagnosed by a paid electrcian. It's 'horses for courses' - whilst you might not be able to charge x amount to diagnose a fault on a PC in your industry, it is common practice for electricians to charge for their work, whether that be installation, testing work etc.

Fair enough, you do not know some of the guys you have berated, but they are mighty fine knowledgable electricians, so I'm not surprised they have taken umbrage at your comments.

I hope you sort yourself out a new dishwasher, but remember, buy cheap, buy twice. Dishwashers get hammered by frequent usage so it pays to buy a decent model.

 

[Geordie Spark]

Leo1 this is a forum for electricians to discuss issues within their own industry. Whilst it is open to anyone that wishes to join it is not a FREE alternative to having electrical faults/issues diagnosed by a paid electrcian. It's 'horses for courses' - whilst you might not be able to charge x amount to diagnose a fault on a PC in your industry, it is common practice for electricians to charge for their work, whether that be installation, testing work etc.

Fair enough, you do not know some of the guys you have berated, but they are mighty fine knowledgable electricians, so I'm not surprised they have taken umbrage at your comments.

I hope you sort yourself out a new dishwasher, but remember, buy cheap, buy twice. Dishwashers get hammered by frequent usage so it pays to buy a decent model.

I don't know how much Leo charges, but the bloke who does my PC repairs charges me £25 per hour subject to a minimum charge of £25 & doesn't do call-outs .... customers have to take their PCs to him !!

He has no shortage of work either - he, his wife & 2 sons are all working in the business full-time & his daughter is working part time.

 

[telectrix]

wel. i'm happy for him to rip out his dishwasher and house wiring, bring it to me and i'll test it all. nominal charge, as the laff is worth more.