Prosecution for Installations Completed after 12/12 but Registered Before

[SRE]

A word of warning for those who installed after they had registered before the 12/12. We had loads in our area - I guess it's a warning coming up to 3/3. Fiddling the feed-in tariff: prosecutions will follow... | YouGen Blog | YouGen, Renewable Energy Made Easy

 

[SpitfireW'sale]

Interesting, and I am very surprised it has not been raised before now. I don't see how they could successfully prove this has happened unless an installation site was visited shortly after the 12th however?

 

[mdovey]

I suppose if you used the real installation date on the part P self-certification forms or other paperwork, they might pick that up.

From the article it sounded like they were investigating abnormal peaks in registrations - e.g. an installer who had been registering 3-4 systems per week during November and early December suddenly registering 25 on the 9 December.

 

[moggy1968]

still tricky to prove. I was project managing some installations for a firm that were completed over a 2 week period but for reasons best known to themselves they registered the whole lot on the sunday evening of the 12th

 

[solarsavings]

I bet we never see a single prosecution. Someone in norfolk told me on the phone yesterday he has yet to finish two 20kw systems registered before the 12th because he can't get the modules. He said he'd done 10kw installs for a company from lincolnshire that were registered before the 12th and installed later. **ss take or what.

 

[TedM]

I also find it difficult to believe that there could be evidence, purely from a database analysis, that would stand up to the 'beyond all reasonable doubt' test in a criminal case of fraud unless there had been some independent site visit before or shortly after 12/12. And not all 'evidence' is necessarily admissible in court.

(Spitfire, it has been raised here before as I remember advising someone not to think about doing it.)

 

[mdovey]

I also find it difficult to believe that there could be evidence, purely from a database analysis, that would stand up to the 'beyond all reasonable doubt' test in a criminal case of fraud

Sorry, I didn't mean that they'd use the database analysis to proof fraud, just that they may use an unexpected peak just before the 12 Dec as an indicator to then either do an on site check or check other paperwork (such as the Part P) for data inconsistencies.

 

[mdovey]

I bet we never see a single prosecution. Someone in norfolk told me on the phone yesterday he has yet to finish two 20kw systems registered before the 12th because he can't get the modules.

I thought the MCS registration included serial numbers for the modules installed?

 

[BruceB]

name, address, type of panels and mcs approval no, dnc, estimated annual generation, gen meter serial no and reading.
No module ser nos required.

 

[TedM]

I suppose MCS assessors may take a greater interest in dates of panel deliveries around last December when they come to do their next inspection, but they can do that as a matter of course for everyone without needing to weed any out. Although analysis of the database might make them target certain installers earlier.

 

[BruceB]

MCS assessors will have no incentive to cause a problem. They are effectively being paid by the person they are assessing and if anything will want to keep registered numbers with their organisation healthy.

 

[solarsavings]

I thought the MCS registration included serial numbers for the modules installed?

As Bruce said make, model is all that's required to register the modules.

 

[Cider]

What you have all overlooked, and unboubtfully the offenders, is it will be the incoming electric meter that will tell a story as the readings will obviously change once a system has been installed.
No getting over that one.?:95:

 

[moggy1968]

circumstantial evidence, it proves nothing. Generation rates are so poor during december the difference will be very small and barely noticeable. The inverter log might though!
happilly all mine were completed well before the cut off but I do know of other firms who were still installing at the end of december. I would think invoices will be the biggest tell tale if companies had to wait to get kit. If it was just lack of installation time then it might be harder to prove.

 

[TedM]

What you have all overlooked, and unboubtfully the offenders, is it will be the incoming electric meter that will tell a story as the readings will obviously change once a system has been installed.
No getting over that one.?:95:

Certainly no way to pin down a criminal offence based on a specific date now a couple of months in the past. Also remember that a system only had to be commissioned for an MCS cert to be issued. It might then have been switched off for a multitude of reasons and re-commissioned at any later date.

 

[Gavin A]

All they need is a few scapegoats to scare others in future, and if they already have suspicions it should be fairly easy to check simply by forcing the companies to hand over proof of all their panel purchases, then seeing if this matched with the number of systems installed, along with scaffolding invoices, Napit certs etc etc.

 

[SRE]

I'm just pleased we got ours finished a couple of days before the deadline. We could have fit another system in because the weather was decent but we didn't want to promise to our customers without being able to deliver. Others take a different view - sometimes I think that being honest doesn't really pay. I saw loads near us going on after the date, I guess we could have easily clocked up another 15 - 20k for ourselves........

 

[SolarCity]

We got all ours done as well. I think there will have been a lot of installers caught between a rock and a chimp's saucepan as they had systems to install but couldn't get hold of the materials. In all honesty, I really don't blame them.

 

[Markc]

Don't they call that propergander?

The key thing is what TedM said " Reasonable doubt" if it is solely based on web statistics then I for one would be n the list and I think so would ALL the other MCS installers. Our workload quadrupled in November and early December but it doesn't mean a single false application went in.

 

[PvNewbie]

I think a problem is that Winter is still on us. My issue is that people are ordering 'if' I can get their system in before March 3rd. If I can't get the system in because the weather won't let me, then I can't get it in. I'm certainly not going to put myself in a position where I have to look over my shoulder continuously. And I won't compromise on safety.

Can you be sued because the weather stops you installing? Snow/ice/gales etc?