Is this installation considered acceptable today? (1-ring including oven and everything else)

[Iain Kay]

The inventory is a good 6 months newer than the EICR.

Will raise with LA and see what they have to say.

Does look like something has changed.

 

[StephenRowley]

Your LL only obligation is to have safe electrical system which from the sounds of it you do.

If wanted to a particular set up that you should have checked it out properly before signing the rental agreement

Your choice is are
A)ask the LL to upgrade and spilt the ring at his cost(But he probably will tell you to jog on)

B)Ask if you can the work done at your expense

C)adjust your usage

D)Starting saving to move out

 

[Des 56]

Maybe its time to stop looking at the op as being the culprit regards a installation and its suitability

If this eicr has been issued by the LA since the new occupation,then they are not aware that there appears to have been alteration to the installation
He has every right to expect the LA to answer his questions and at least issue a modified eicr

 

[Octopus]

Maybe its time to stop looking at the op as being the culprit regards a installation and its suitability

Has anyone suggested this?

I don't think so

But if the Landlord won't have an new EICR conducted, then the OP, at their own cost could get one done .......................but the landlord will be under no obligation to act on its findings

but as he's in Scotland the EICR that has been "done" is probably one not to be trusted as its almost certainly been done for a rock bottom price to "tick" a box ............

 

[Iain Kay]

What is a home lab & do you not have a smart meter that shows usage (ours does it shows wattage usage in real time)

I had missed this one. I don't have a smart meter but I do have an Omega HHM250 somewhere that I could use to take a measurement from around the meter tail.

Obviously this wouldn't necessarily accurately reflect the use of one circuit but assuming the MCBs are operating, which they appear to be in terms of cutting off devices, I should be able to leave just the one ring MCB on and measure this.

I'll hold off on doing this for now, though, as I've emailed my LA with regards to my findings not matching up with the EICR.

Your LL only obligation is to have safe electrical system which from the sounds of it you do.

If wanted to a particular set up that you should have checked it out properly before signing the rental agreement

Your choice is are
A)ask the LL to upgrade and spilt the ring at his cost(But he probably will tell you to jog on)

B)Ask if you can the work done at your expense

C)adjust your usage

D)Starting saving to move out

I agree with this.

I would not expect the landlord to foot the bill if the installation is considered safe as is. I'm not a freeloader by any means!

As for saving to move out, I'm currently saving to buy a place which will not have the limitations imposed on me from renting so I'd rather not move, point B seems to be the way to go, once I've clarified why the EICR states I should have two rings but have only one.

Been ever so slightly cheeky with my wording suggesting there may have been an unauthorised modification that they're not aware of but actually at this point it is my thinking.

Given they have a contract with a local electrical contractor, the same one that did the EICR, I should at very least get an answer on it.

At this stage, I could ask if they're able to sort it out at my expense if the current state is intentional.

Either split the rings back, or run me a 32A radial to somewhere where I can plug in my stuff.

It seems, though, that splitting the rings would be the most beneficial for use after I leave and I'd be happy with that plan of action.

 

[Octopus]

I agree with this.

I would not expect the landlord to foot the bill if the installation is considered safe as is. I'm not a freeloader by any means!

As for saving to move out, I'm currently saving to buy a place which will not have the limitations imposed on me from renting so I'd rather not move, point B seems to be the way to go, once I've clarified why the EICR states I should have two rings but have only one.

Been ever so slightly cheeky with my wording suggesting there may have been an unauthorised modification that they're not aware of but actually at this point it is my thinking.

Given they have a contract with a local electrical contractor, the same one that did the EICR, I should at very least get an answer on it.

At this stage, I could ask if they're able to sort it out at my expense if the current state is intentional.

Either split the rings back, or run me a 32A radial to somewhere where I can plug in my stuff.

It seems, though, that splitting the rings would be the most beneficial for use after I leave and I'd be happy with that plan of action.

Why?

What makes you think this is necessary?

 

[Iain Kay]

Has anyone suggested this?

I don't think so

But if the Landlord won't have an new EICR conducted, then the OP, at their own cost could get one done .......................but the landlord will be under no obligation to act on its findings

but as he's in Scotland the EICR that has been "done" is probably one not to be trusted as its almost certainly been done for a rock bottom price to "tick" a box ............

This may be the case Murdoch as there are some limitations specified on it.

Specifically:

3. Purpose of the report:
"Landlords safety report."

Extent of the electrical installation covered by this report:
"100% of the installation tested. 10% visually inspected. In accordance with item 3.8.2 of Guidance Note 3."

Agreed and operational limitations of the inspection and testing (include reasons and person agreed with):
"Characteristics of Primary Supply Overcurrent device. No testing of HVAC control cables. Routing of cables in prescribed zones or within mechanical protection. No lifting of floor boards or inspection of loft space."

I see no name of person that this was agreed with.

 

[Octopus]

This may be the case Murdoch as there are some limitations specified on it.

Specifically:

3. Purpose of the report:
"Landlords safety report."

Extent of the electrical installation covered by this report:
"100% of the installation tested. 10% visually inspected. In accordance with item 3.8.2 of Guidance Note 3."

Agreed and operational limitations of the inspection and testing (include reasons and person agreed with):
"Characteristics of Primary Supply Overcurrent device. No testing of HVAC control cables. Routing of cables in prescribed zones or within mechanical protection. No lifting of floor boards or inspection of loft space."

I see no name of person that this was agreed with.

Those aren't limitations - would you be happy that the inspection included pulling the property apart to check where cables run?

As for the 100%, 10% 3.8.2 - that's very normal

I could count on the fingers of 1 hand how many landlords I deal with who want a 100% circuits and 100% of accessories visually inspected - the time to conduct this would make the inspection too expensive IMHO

Why don't you write to the Landlord and express your concerns about the validity of the EICR and your finding and see what happens next

Comments on here aren't really going to help you

And finally why have you chosen to conceal your profile?

 

[Iain Kay]

Why?

What makes you think this is necessary?

As stated earlier there is discussion of my requirement to power a rack of PC equipment as being outside the scope of typical domestic use and I can completely accept this.

There's also discussion about how if the breaker is tripping then I am most likely overloading the system and I can accept this too.

Given that, currently, I've actually not plugged nearly all of my home lab and I'm still seeing the MCB tripping. albeit not frequently, I'm thinking that I need to sort this out now.

If I plug in the rest of the kit as is and fire it up, the MCB is off before I even hear all the fans kick in.

As suggested by some users I could attempt to stagger the load but if I'm out of the property and suffer a brief blip then all of that power will kick back in in an instant and the MCB will trip.

Then that's my fridge gone.

There's also the concern of it being my responsibility to use the system as it is safely, and that's clearly not the case right now if I'm able to trip MCBs so I need to at very least either not use it as is, look to have it upgraded at my cost or, if there's a bit of shoddy work, get that corrected by LA.

 

[Iain Kay]

Those aren't limitations - would you be happy that the inspection included pulling the property apart to check where cables run?

As for the 100%, 10% 3.8.2 - that's very normal

I could count on the fingers of 1 hand how many landlords I deal with who want a 100% circuits and 100% of accessories visually inspected - the time to conduct this would make the inspection too expensive IMHO

Why don't you write to the Landlord and express your concerns about the validity of the EICR and your finding and see what happens next

Comments on here aren't really going to help you

I have sent my concerns to LA now and will see what they come back with.

I do thank you all for your assistance.

And finally why have you chosen to conceal your profile?

This has come up a couple of times now.

I signed up and haven't changed any settings on the forums.

Let me check over settings and see why that is because all I did was join, populate all required fields and confirm email then post.

 

[Octopus]

Hum............ maybe your "load" is outside the scope of normal household consumption.

Are you running a business from home?

Best you engage in communications with the landlord .......

 

[Iain Kay]

Hum............ maybe your "load" is outside the scope of normal household consumption.

Are you running a business from home?

Best you engage in communications with the landlord .......

Vortigern did mention that the load is outside the scope of a typical domestic installation, however, technically I'm not running a business and this is all for personal use so it's not a business in such sense at all but from a sparks perspective the usage is definitely in line with such that you would install to a home office, and then some.

However, I've never had an issue in previous dwellings in Edinburgh where I've always found there to be two rings and either the load on one is so low that I don't have to split the load, or I'll split kit across rings and ensure that the load on each is as low as possible.

I always try to be safe and sensible with my usage of power, particularly since once this is in place it's rarely moved other than visual inspection of all cabling roughly once a quarter.

P.S. I have found the settings in my profile that people were referencing. A lot of it was hidden unless I followed you. Sorted that out, all members should see my profile now.

 

[Octopus]

FYI - 2 ring circuits is relatively new ......... there are 100,000 's of thousands of homes in the UK with 1 socket circuit - houses and flats.

 

[Iain Kay]

FYI - 2 ring circuits is relatively new ......... there are 100,000 's of thousands of homes in the UK with 1 socket circuit - houses and flats.

That is certainly what I have found whilst looking into it.

I guess I was lucky that the home where I grew up had a full rewire done before I was old enough to know what any of the rings were.

And now, I can call this the first house i've encountered in Edinburgh with a single ring

Spoke to a few friends elsewhere in the country and they've all told me that it's definitely something they've encountered.

I can't find anybody that I know who has an electric oven on their single ring though!

 

[Octopus]

In your first post you stated you are studying for the 18th edition - so you should understand that circuit designs are simply that - a design based on a considered load of circuit(s) - specific items over 2Kw and not supplied with a 13A plug fitted should be on their own circuits, as should immersions ...

An EICR done on an empty flat can take no account of possible future uses - over potential overloads ................... so an EICR conducted now with you and all your IT may well decide that there is a distinct possibility of overload ................. no 2 occupants are the same, nor are there requirements

Hope this helps.

 

[Iain Kay]

In your first post you stated you are studying for the 18th edition - so you should understand that circuit designs are simply that - a design based on a considered load of circuit(s) - specific items over 2Kw and not supplied with a 13A plug fitted should be on their own circuits, as should immersions ...

An EICR done on an empty flat can take no account of possible future uses - over potential overloads ................... so an EICR conducted now with you and all your IT may well decide that there is a distinct possibility of overload ................. no 2 occupants are the same, nor are there requirements

Hope this helps.

Thanks Murdoch.

This is helpful and yeah I get the general idea behind the circuits being put in to design, and when renting or buying an existing property I've not been any part of that design process, I just have very little experience working in the field so wanted to check if this was more common than I thought it would be - and yeah it seems it is.

My LA have been in touch and have a spark coming out tomorrow to look at it as their records state the EICR should be the latest and correct.

I'll be there to see what's gone on and can report back if anybody is interested.

 

[telectrix]

i smell a £50 EICR. think murdoch mentioned that also. lost track of the number of EICRs I've lost due to cheapskate LAs wanting "on the cheap".

 

[Iain Kay]

i smell a £50 EICR. think murdoch mentioned that also. lost track of the number of EICRs I've lost due to cheapskate LAs wanting "on the cheap".

I'm finding it hard to believe, but not impossible, that anybody remotely competent could have completed this EICR with things in their current state.

If somebody has put two rings on an EICR with different R1+R2 and Zs values and listed two separate MCBs whilst the two circuits are actually terminated into the same MCB, they should not be in the trade...

Tomorrow will tell, perhaps, although it's not like they'd fess up if the original EICR was the botch job.

 

[littlespark]

It would be good to see whats behind the CU cover before the LA's electrician has a look.
Not that i'm saying the OP should do it, but if he could look over the guys shoulder once in a while

 

[Iain Kay]

I’ve got CCTV pointed right at the CU and it has the option to add a battery backup. Right now that’s on the camera pointing outside but I’ll move it over and should get some good pics.

If it was my place then no question I’d be happy just taking the cover off. Worst case i discover something terribly wrong and keep it powered off until I can see a professional. But given it’s a rental I’ll just keep a keen eye on the sparks there.