Ground floor lighting trips out mcb

[dmxtothemax]

Sounds like a lot of electronic power regulators involved here,
Any circuit with lots of electronics involved can have problems,
SMPS are highly reactive and cheap one's even more so !
So we don't know what harmonics are involved,
But they can increase the current flowing.
I would measure the current in the circuit.
If the cables will allow it change your breaker from 6 amps to 10 amps.
See if that helps.

 

[DC-backfrom the past]

just another point do any of the light circuits downstairs have a dimmer switch ? its possible this has been damaged during testing if the spark forgot about it.

 

[Biggy]

No dimmer switches, just simple basic switches.

As for changing from 6amp to higher ampage I have been advised on this thread not to as 6amp should be sufficient to power up 1380watts and my combined wattage is not even 500watts so why increase the ampage ?

 

[Midwest]

Did you reply to my query #18?

 

[alasdairp]

Unless it is certified that all the lighting circuit wiring is in 1.5mm^2 then the maximum 10A MCB is allowed. The 6A MCB should be more than adequate. If there are heavy switch-on current surges then a C6 (instead of a B6) MCB is allowed - that allows a higher short-term surge current before tripping. In your two photos, the cooker MCB seems badly out of alignment in the detailed close-up photo. That suggest that it was not fitted correctly or its mounting is damaged and it should be inspected by a qualified electrician.

 

[Strima]

In your two photos, the cooker MCB seems badly out of alignment in the detailed close-up photo. That suggest that it was not fitted correctly or its mounting is damaged and it should be inspected by a qualified electrician.

Looking at the photo the cover isn't correctly fitted causing the MCBs to push out of alignment when the cover is screwed into place.

 

[alasdairp]

Looking at the photo the cover isn't correctly fitted causing the MCBs to push out of alignment when the cover is screwed into place.

That's what I thought - so the cover was removed and replaced between taking the two photos... by whom, I wonder? It is quite a long way out of alignment so the plastic DIN rail grippers will be under considerable stress and strain.

 

[Strima]

That's what I thought - so the cover was removed and replaced between taking the two photos... by whom, I wonder? It is quite a long way out of alignment so the plastic DIN rail grippers will be under considerable stress and strain.

I thought the first photo was a stock one from the internet?

To poorly fit a cover like that shows a lack of consideration and makes me wonder what the rest of the installation is like???

 

[Midwest]

You lot need to visit the real world, its BG. Lucky the OP hasn't got an MK leaning tower of Pisa CU.

 

[Biggy]

Did you reply to my query #18?

Sorry here the link for the type of lights I bought :3w LED Recessed Lighting Panel Ceiling Down Light Ultra Slim Round Cool White | eBay - https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/3w-LED-Recessed-Lighting-Panel-Ceiling-Down-Light-Ultra-Slim-Round-Cool-White/649349315?iid=162353285306&chn=ps&ul_ref=https%253A%252F%252Frover.ebay.com%252Frover%252F1%252F710-134428-41853-0%252F2%253Fmpre%253Dhttps%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.ebay.co.uk%25252Fp%25252F3w-LED-Recessed-Lighting-Panel-Ceiling-Down-Light-Ultra-Slim-Round-Cool-White%25252F649349315%25253Fiid%25253D162353285306%252526chn%25253Dps%2526itemid%253D162353285306%2526targetid%253D520699183082%2526device%253Dm%2526adtype%253Dpla%2526googleloc%253D9046668%2526poi%253D%2526campaignid%253D1594021645%2526adgroupid%253D59100101206%2526rlsatarget%253Dpla-520699183082%2526abcId%253D1139126%2526merchantid%253D113600570%2526gclid%253DCj0KCQiA05zhBRCMARIsACKDWje26zCduM1wLMwhol9qT1l64nOEnsPHFNszKfmVyZz99b7Py3B-QuoaAvg_EALw_wcB%2526srcrot%253D710-134428-41853-0%2526rvr_id%253D1799764726918%2526rvr_ts%253Dfb488ffa1670aca00b92312ffffe7fbe

 

[Biggy]

Yes, the CU cover is not screwed in properly and I only found out after I was doing some work in the basement and hammering something into the wall and the cover just fell off !

I see that the breakers are aligned very poorly and yes this electrician seemed to slack in neat and responsible workmanship.

The hammering by the way was nowhere near any sort of wiring so nothing to do with the breaker tripping.

Could it be that the breakers are not in properly or loose connections from the CU side of things ?
He hasn't turned up as promised and not answering my calls now, I sense he has realised he has made a blunder somewhere and maybe knows there more work involved for him to find the root cause and just cutting off my calls.

Where do I stand with this if I don't get anything forthcoming from him considering it's brand new wiring installation?

 

[Strima]

I think you may have to bite the bullet and get someone else in. Was the installing spark a member of any scheme such as NICEIC, STROMA etc?

 

[Gary K]

Suggest that you call him from a number that he does not recognize if he is cutting you off.

 

[alasdairp]

Sorry, but this reply is going to be very negative for you. I would never go for cheap Ebay units made by a unknown Chinese firm - especially for ceiling installed light fixtures. Could even be a fire hazard. The data sheet has clear mistakes in it. I also personally do not like super bright white LED lights - too harsh for me for most purposes.
You write:
"The electrician used his friend to come and certify it off and does this mean there is a possibility the certificate has just been issued without really having a proper test done to check."

Look up this "friend's" Registered Number which will be on the Certificate. Check with and complain to the Approved Organisation whose name will be on the Certificate. The work was "notifiable" to the Local Authority - that is a legal requirement under Part P Building Regulations for a new consumer unit and new installed lighting circuits. Was that done? You should check with them - and, although they may not be very sympathetic if it was not done, they will probably help persue the "Electrician".

I don't know how someone else could properly 'certify' that the LED lumaires were fitted and wired correctly after the installation was complete. The small electronic transformers (230 volts to c. 24 volts) need to be fitted and wired correctly with suitable cable and connectors. You certainly should NOT increase the MCB rating from 6A!

Sorry to say it, but you may have given yourself a bit of a problem. Please do not ignore this - as I said it may have serious insurance implications if the wiring or LED units cause a fire - you may not be insured. You need to check the validity of the Certificate. There are non approved and uncertified scammers around who enter false details. Go to Trading Standards if necessary. In the New Year, if this is not resolved soon, I strongly recommend that you need to get a good fully certified and recommended local electrician or electrical contractor in to see the installation and give advice as to what you need to do next.

 

[Midwest]

Did you reply to my query #18?

Lots of long very long replies, but jack ---- to mine. Possibliy out on the raggerdly edge, but worth consdeartation. Can you hear me mother, testsin testing.
PS Tired & off to bed, can't even be ared with aotu spell cick

 

[alasdairp]

Lots of long very long replies, but jack **** to mine. Possibliy out on the raggerdly edge, but worth consdeartation. Can you hear me mother, testsin testing.
PS Tired & off to bed, can't even be ared with aotu spell cick

see Biggy's #50 a couple of posts ago

 

[Toneyz]

Just another thought; seems a fair bit of led lighting on one circuit, wonder what make & how they are switched?

It is a possible assumption and if the E.L.I. permits a C type MCB due to the nature of the switched load. But, what confuses me is it tripping out with no load unless a faulty MCB. Maybe it's been forced on after tripping on switching the LED load that has caused its mechanism to fail.

 

[Toneyz]

Are the LED light fittings covered with insulation?

 

[Midwest]

see Biggy's #50 a couple of posts ago

See my #18 a couple of pages ago.

 

[Biggy]

Midwest, I have replied to your post with a link to the type of led they are. I don't know what you mean by how they are switched ( not on a dimmer if that's what you mean ) . Also I am trying to reply by quoting in responses but when I do I can't see the option of posting the reply so have to just reply at the end of the posts.

@anthonybragg the light fittings themselves aren't covered with insulation ( I guess you mean fire rated covers by that ) . The wiring is simply fed into connector blocks from ceilings and the led have a brown and blue wire only which have been connected to the block also.

@alisdairp - thanks for that. The EIC cert does have the certifier 6 digit ID number and name and address so I will be seeing him in the new year and questioning why its been signed off as fine when its actually tripping . I won't put a higher amp in that's for sure.

The electrician himself works for a company and was recommended by a colleague at work so I went with him purely on recommendation.

In meantime I will turn off CU power and check every light switch and light to see if there's any loose wire on ground floor and if it all looks fine then it may be a frayed wire somewhere in between the joists (I did point 3 out before everything was boarded up ) which were replaced but now I feel there maybe others .
Also he tacked in the wires against the wall in a couple places using nails which were then bent over the wires to hold them in place but I did check and they were loose enough just to hold the wires in place so not cutting into any wires.

Just remembered the above now so hoping these aren't the cause too.
I wasn't there most of the time as was at work so he has made me very concerned now .

If theirs no joy just after the New Year I will simply report him to his workplace , Building control, NIC, and also the tester will be reported and will see how far that takes me , otherwise more costs to correct this will be a harsh lesson learnt.

All the best to you All and a Happy New Year in advance if I don't get back til Wednesday now.

Thankyou to each and every one of you for your input.

 

[Midwest]

Midwest, I have replied to your post with a link to the type of led they are. I don't know what you mean by how they are switched ( not on a dimmer if that's what you mean ) . Also I am trying to reply by quoting in responses but when I do I can't see the option of posting the reply so have to just reply at the end of the posts.


Thankyou to each and every one of you for your input.

My thinking, it’s a bit of a long shot, is if you have too many LED fittings control by one switch, the momentary high inrush current can trip an MCB. I think you’ve mentioned the mcb tripping when the lights are off?

Using nails as cable clips, is a bit unconventional, blow back to the past!

You should allow your installer a chance to rectify things. That’s what his Scheme will expect, before investigating anything, if they do at all. Building Control will not carry out any inspection, but might refer you to trading standards.

In the first instance, see what your installer suggests on rectifying theses faults.

 

[Toneyz]

]@anthonybragg the light fittings themselves aren't covered with insulation ( I guess you mean fire rated covers by that ) . The wiring is simply fed into connector blocks from ceilings and the led have a brown and blue wire only which have been connected to the block also.[/QUOTE]

What I was referring to was if the fitting/driver/transformer is covered with insulation it burns out this sometimes ends up causing a L-N short tripping the MCB. You say they aren't so hopefully that can be ruled out.

The electrician himself works for a company and was recommended by a colleague at work so I went with him purely on a recommendation.

Let's not be too hasty n blaming the electrician it may well not down to a workship issue.

 

[Pete999]

]@anthonybragg the light fittings themselves aren't covered with insulation ( I guess you mean fire rated covers by that ) . The wiring is simply fed into connector blocks from ceilings and the led have a brown and blue wire only which have been connected to the block also.

What I was referring to was if the fitting/driver/transformer is covered with insulation it burns out this sometimes ends up causing a L-N short tripping the MCB. You say they aren't so hopefully that can be ruled out.

Let's not be too hasty n blaming the electrician it may well not down to a workship issue.[/QUOTE]
Workship issue??

 

[Toneyz]

Workmanship, Some people on here are getting too pedantic on spelling, grammar and punctuation and are taking the enjoyment out of coming on the forum. Yes, I can take it from you, Pete, as I know your only jesting and we both know each other but others are not on here.

 

[DPG]

I hope my comments regarding apostrophes are not causing offence

 

[Pete999]

I hope my comments regarding apostrophes are not causing offence

You'll soon know DPG.

 

[Toneyz]

I hope my comments regarding apostrophes are not causing offence

No, you could see it was in jest. It is other members picking on other members weaknesses.

 

[richy3333]

^^Whos with the NIC (NICEIC)? The installer or the guy that tested? If the installer then you should be able to claim under the NICEIC guarantee (platinum promise). The NICEIC also don’t allow 3rd party ‘signing off’ of work.

 

[Toneyz]

As we don't know the reason for the MCB tripping I would want the electrician (preferably with his mate with the test equipment) to come back urgently. Being it trips not instantaneously you may not know what is arcing away somewhere.

 

[Pete999]

No, you could see it was in jest. It is other members picking on other members weaknesses.

You would think so wouldn't you, there are other reasons though.

 

[Toneyz]

You would think so wouldn't you, there are other reasons though.

Such as?

 

[w0z]

What I was referring to was if the fitting/driver/transformer is covered with insulation it burns out this sometimes ends up causing a L-N short tripping the MCB. You say they aren't so hopefully that can be ruled out.

Let's not be too hasty n blaming the electrician it may well not down to a workship issue.

Workship issue??[/QUOTE]
Didn't the OP say all of the lights were working? If the driver was fubar I doubt the lamp would work.

 

[telectrix]

Workmanship, Some people on here are getting too pedantic on spelling, grammar and punctuation and are taking the enjoyment out of coming on the forum. Yes, I can take it from you, Pete, as I know your only jesting and we both know each other but others are not on here.

this is a workship.

 

[Pete999]

Such as?

this is a workship.
View attachment 46794

And this is a workshop, so yore starter for 10 is, which one is correct?

 

[Pete999]

And this is a workshop, so yore starter for 10 is, which one is correct?

Sorry you're before anyone hits the "bad spelling" button, see I'm not drunk. Yet when I am I'll stop posting.

 

[Toneyz]

And this is a workshop, so yore starter for 10 is, which one is correct?

I see that's what you modelled your garage on.

 

[Rpa07]

They didn’t even check their spelling of ‘Building’ before they posted to the World on YouTube!

I see that's what you modelled your garage on.

 

[telectrix]

wrong pete. it should read your, not you're.

 

[Pete999]

wrong pete. it should read your, not you're.

Correct!

 

[Biggy]

Little update, I got family member who knows a little on electrics to come give a view on it whilst I'm waiting and he has tried the following:

Moved the live wire from the breaker to the one next to it which was a 16amp breaker and lights stayed on for an hour or so without tripping so didn't want to stay there waiting as it could have been hours before it tripped, anyway then moved wire back to its original breaker and it tripped after 10 mins.

Next thing he did was swop upstairs 6amp breaker to downstairs and see if upstairs trips to eliminate faulty breaker. The lights this time stayed on for 1hr 40 mins before I decided to switch them off and go home.
Returned this morning to find the trip had switched for ground floor, so this has definitely eliminated a faulty breaker which isn't the case.

He will check all switches for loose wiring today and maybe disconnect all led spotlights and just leave the two main central lights in each room wired up and then see if they trip, as he thinks if they don't trip then the problem may well be with the cheap transformers and may have to replace all transformers with maybe 5watt capacity to sufficiently supply the 3w led lights .

Only baffling thing is they can still trip whilst lights are off so somebody here mentioned it rules out the drivers .

As for the installer whether he is NIC approved , the answer is I am not sure but is there a way to check online or somewhere , I know the tester is as he provided the certificate .