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Switch em off first is the answer sham.Metal Domestic Consumer boards, make me nervous when taking the lid off with my hands.
Discuss The use of plastic wall plugs for the 18th.... in the UK Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net
Switch em off first is the answer sham.Metal Domestic Consumer boards, make me nervous when taking the lid off with my hands.
How do you switch off when the isolator is usually inside the board?Switch em off first is the answer sham.
Who,s going to first to come out with the ‘Nervous disposition switch’, I wonderHow do you switch off when the isolator is usually inside the board?
That is a joke, yes?How do you switch off when the isolator is usually inside the board?
Why not try your feet.Metal Domestic Consumer boards, make me nervous when taking the lid off with my hands.
Kind of, but the serious point is how can we have metal earthed containment where the protective devices are inside. Think about rcd protection on a TT system for the worst example. Relying only on the basic protection of insulation but no fault protection is not really ideal, but without an up front RCD that's what we would do.That is a joke, yes?
For example, if you have a house where the ceiling and roof joist are of the engineered "I"-beam type and you drill through these to run services, they are prone to failure even without a fire. Where the upright web is typically 6 or 8mm OSB, you can't expect this to have the fire-resistant qualities of a four by two. Yes, wood burns, but solid timbers in the old style will last longer before failing...and that's just the tip of the proverbial, imho.
So plastic plugs no, but plastic trunking, conduit, fast fit boxes, etc etc etc are all ok, someone is having a good old ****ing laugh at us all, and all we do is bend over further and let the scam providers shaft us,maybe we should go back to the 4 inch nail bent over cables like in the good old days
So plastic plugs no, but plastic trunking, conduit, fast fit boxes, etc etc etc are all ok, someone is having a good old ****ing laugh at us all, and all we do is bend over further and let the scam providers shaft us,maybe we should go back to the 4 inch nail bent over cables like in the good old days
So as lo g as the fixing stays up everything else can dangle and sag, fooking crap and I can't believe some of you are buying into this "We are the borg prepare to be assimilated" for trays, baskets, metal trunk use metal expanding anchors simple
The new regulation doesn’t make any exceptions be it a single cable incased in trunking on a wall or for bundles of cables fixed high level to a ceiling,it simply states ALL wiring in the installation shall be secured against premature collapse so it will affect all installations.I'm mainly domestic and small commercial works now. I don't see how this affects me at all?
If I do a shed, garage etc, the cables fall down the wall, no chance they will be in anyones way. Showers and smokies going from ground floor to attic it's a bit of MT2 stuck to the wall, without it the cable isn't in a danger to anyone it'll just hang there.
That's not what I meant. I should have made it clearer.The new regulation doesn’t make any exceptions be it a single cable incased in trunking on a wall or for bundles of cables fixed high level to a ceiling,it simply states ALL wiring in the installation shall be secured against premature collapse so it will affect all installations in all locations of installation.
...and then there are the diy Dick's and cowboy **** pretenders in our own trade.As usual we will comply as we know and abide by the regulations. However other trades won’t so Dave the data bloke or Steve the Sky engineer won’t give a **** and still just chuck it them in...
That’s a lead lug on that which would melt over the kettle put on to make the tea! Nice fixing though, used to use them for BT cables.
Just out of curiosity, donother trades such as ceiling fittiers, air con installers have to comply too as they both install things that are liable to fall down should the fixing fail in a fire?
Do any of you old geezers out there remember ALEX plugs in the 70's. They were an aluminium rawlplug an always gave you a solid fixing - much better than the plastic ones. Perhaps they are the solution to this problem.
Chewing asbestos is quite safe, it only causes damage when finres are inhaled.
Ally melts don't it?More on ally plugs - they still make them. Seems they are about 4 times the price of plastic. See more here : UCAN | Products - http://www.ucanfast.com/products/details.php?category=Mechanical+Anchors&c=6&subcategory=+Light+Duty+Anchors&sc=181&productid=112
Ally melts don't it?More on ally plugs - they still make them. Seems they are about 4 times the price of plastic. See more here : UCAN | Products - http://www.ucanfast.com/products/details.php?category=Mechanical+Anchors&c=6&subcategory=+Light+Duty+Anchors&sc=181&productid=112
Ally melts don't it?
at about 660 C.
Cant use aluminium then as it might be a fire 2 and the firefighters will be walking around in a 690°C temperature and may get molten aluminium dripped on them as well as being entangled in cables.
Why will they be running? To keep warm!Now you're being Silly.
They won't be walking around in that temperature, they'll be running..
This is why we have amendments, so they can make new book for more money. Blue, green, red, yellow etc. lol.I'm wondering about another couple of scenarios that don't seem to have been covered here:
- Cables in loft or basements that are only entered for building maintenance - are these spaces included in 'metal fixings must be used everywhere'?
- Cables fixed to exposed wood (e.g. skirting board, exposed ceiling timbers, or in a garden shed). Everyone seems to assume all walls are made of solid concrete which is actually rather rare in domestic settings. I have used metal clips fixed to wood and believe the wood would take longer to burn than a plastic, but I don't know how much longer or how the regs would apply to this.
Cables in loft or basements that are only entered for building maintenance - are these spaces included in 'metal fixings must be used everywhere'?
I'm wondering about another couple of scenarios that don't seem to have been covered here:
- Cables in loft or basements that are only entered for building maintenance - are these spaces included in 'metal fixings must be used everywhere'?
- Cables fixed to exposed wood (e.g. skirting board, exposed ceiling timbers, or in a garden shed). Everyone seems to assume all walls are made of solid concrete which is actually rather rare in domestic settings. I have used metal clips fixed to wood and believe the wood would take longer to burn than a plastic, but I don't know how much longer or how the regs would apply to this.
They already have, and modified the BA & helmets to minimise this risk, the Coroner came down hard on the Fire & Rescue services & the electrical industry.simple solution.... issue all firefighters with a pair of these:
Interesting point, but I wonder whether in practice firefighters crawl through basements so small they cannot bend their knees, in burning buildings, on the one-in-a-million chance there is someone in there. If not, then where is the cut-off?I'd go with Yes, as I presume that firefighters would have to search every room, in case of a fire.
"Sorry about the body in the basement, but as it was a maintenance area I thought there would be no one there, so we didn't search it." would not go down well..
Interesting point, but I wonder whether in practice firefighters crawl through basements so small they cannot bend their knees, in burning buildings, on the one-in-a-million chance there is someone inI'd go with Yes, as I presume that firefighters would have to search every room, in case of a fire.
"Sorry about the body in the basement, but as it was a maintenance area I thought there would be no one there, so we didn't search it." would not go down well..
OK bad example on my part, maybe a cable clipped to a dado rail (if anyone's ever done that)? That said, I don't think cables clipped to skirtings are excluded, unless the cables are actually supported by the floor. Perhaps a cable falling away from a skirting could at least become a trip hazard?If the cables can't fall down because their failed, how can someone (or a fireman) become entrapped in them, thereby falling (forgive the pun) into the interpretation of said definition?
Like, hows a cable clipped to a skirting, gonna entrap a fireman?
Interesting. Perhaps we need some clarification about which metals are suitable and how we identify them.I think the self drive plasterboard fixings are made from an alloy so they may well melt too early as well. Though I do not know the alloy used.
The metal wall plugs are probably the simplest but would have really too great a sideways force for weak substrates and could readily shatter the wall.
Presumably someone will come up with a product like the D line clips, vastly overpriced and annoying.
The regs already say a light must be fixed to the joists or similar to avoid the plasterboard giving way in the event of a fire burning off the paper -
Yes I most certainly do and stupidly made a mistake when I ordered the last batch. I wrote 1000 on the order against each of 4 sizes along with various sizes of screws and no one questioned the quantity. The delivery was made, the invoice sent and account paid, all 3 being done in their usual efficient manner. Imagine my surprise when I next went to the shelf and found 28 boxes containing 144 boxes each of 200 alex plugs on the floor where I expected to see 20 small boxes on the shelf. Weirdly there were only 5 boxes of each size of screw delivered.Do any of you old geezers out there remember ALEX plugs in the 70's. They were an aluminium rawlplug an always gave you a solid fixing - much better than the plastic ones. Perhaps they are the solution to this problem.
Just checked and they don't . What they do say (to paraphrase and abbreviate) is that adequate means to fix shall be provided, capable of supporting not less that 5kg, and installed in accordance with manufacturer's instructions. I'd question the ability of plasterboard to support 5kG with any form of raw plug (perhaps others can correct me), and I know at least some manufacturers' instructions specify fixing to joists or other timber rather than plasterboard. Where I have read that this is to avoid the plasterboard giving way in the event of a fire burning off the paper, I couldn't tell you.Do they? Which regulation is that?
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