Advice on re-joining two main cables after patio door installation

[Jamie Graham]

Hi,

I'm looking to re-join the two spurs legally and safely after the wall was knocked out under the window where the cables ran in a channel in the plaster. I am not a qualified electrician.

I have a channel in the concrete floor (under the new patio doors and laminate floor) that I have run fresh mains cables alongside the central heating pipes.

Since where I join the fresh cable has to be accessible I was thinking of using a metal backbox (Toolstation > Electrical > Boxes & Pattresses > Metal Box with Knock Outs) sunk into the wall on each side of the new patio doors. Then run the cables into this and make the physical joins to the cables inside. Then fit a blanking plate on there to keep it hidden but accessible.

Can I legally use 30a connector strip (Toolstation > Electrical > Cable Management > Connector Strip) to make the physical connections? Should I put heat shrink insulation over the top or would this make it less safe by hiding the physical connection (so overheating/poor connection would be hidden from casual inspection)?
Is there a better way to solve this without having to channel out all the walls and lay a fresh ring cable with no need for joins?

While I have the wall apart in this local area I want to drill through and run a new spur though the wall to fit an outdoor socket and patio light. Can this spur be made from the normal ring mains in the living room via a junction box or does it legally need a fresh cable back to the consumer unit.

Thanks for reading. Any advice welcomed.

 

[derek]

This should be in the DIY section.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

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[micknew]

********....

Priceless advice!

 

[Jamie Graham]

answered my own question while chuckling at the quality advice here should know better asking stuff on internet after 10pm to many people are a fair few cans in by now. Me repairing cabling is fine as its a repair job but in the case of adding outdoor sockets/light, I legally need a sparky to do the work to meet building regs.

 

[Jamie Graham]

I suppose that stops mugs fitting indoor sockets, outside....

 

[GLENNSPARK]

answered my own question while chuckling at the quality advice here should know better asking stuff on internet after 10pm to many people are a fair few cans in by now. Me repairing cabling is fine as its a repair job but in the case of adding outdoor sockets/light, I legally need a sparky to do the work to meet building regs.

do what you like for me fella where your own property is concerned....but dont just come in here and start asking how to do this, that and`t other first post....

best go get an electrician in who will be able to offer advice, do a professional job with value for money...

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[2na]

If I were you, I wouldn't fix this without any knowledge. I'm guessing you just laid the cable in the floor and plan to screed over it without any protection. 2 years time it will break down and need digging out. Also, joining cables up is not to be taken light hearted, that is where most faults occur.

That job wouldn't cost much more than £100, why would you risk it?

ps heat shrink? This is not an electronics forum, it's rarely needed in electrical installation these days...

 

[Badged01]

I legally need a sparky to do the work to meet building regs.

Not if you're in England, standards are much lower there! Now in Wales you would ......

 

[DPG]

If I were you, I wouldn't fix this without any knowledge. I'm guessing you just laid the cable in the floor and plan to screed over it without any protection. 2 years time it will break down and need digging out. Also, joining cables up is not to be taken light hearted, that is where most faults occur.

That job wouldn't cost much more than £100, why would you risk it?

ps heat shrink? This is not an electronics forum, it's rarely needed in electrical installation these days...

Can't see the problem with someone who's got a bit of common sense joining a cable. We'll be getting people to call a spark to put a plug on next. He knows it needs to be accessible and connected correctly.
PS, heatshrink is very useful electrically. Covering crimped connections for one. Daz

 

[DPG]

When you say 'next to the central heating pipes' - you are leaving a gap between them aren't you? Daz

 

[MDJ]

I am almost lost for words, however as Daz mentioned what is next to the pipes actually mean? and how would you protect the wires into a concrete floor, have you got a photo?

 

[Spoon]

As already mentioned, this post should be in the DIY section.

To the OP: As well as answering all the questions above please can you tell us if your existing CU has a RCD?
Then we can get a better picture and help you out more...

 

[2na]

Can't see the problem with someone who's got a bit of common sense joining a cable. We'll be getting people to call a spark to put a plug on next. He knows it needs to be accessible and connected correctly.
PS, heatshrink is very useful electrically. Covering crimped connections for one. Daz

Which crimps do you mean? Most are insulated and galvanised crimps should be enclosed? I personally dont like through crimps at all, I've never really thought they were safe.

 

[DPG]

Best not start the crimp argument again! :grinningelf: Daz

 

[2na]

Oh sorry daz, didn't know that one had been done to death before!

 

[ArseyDee]

Jamie,

Have I got this right:- It was a ring final circuit which has been split and you are now taking one leg to each side of the new patio door, and completing the ring with a new length of cable between the two?

You mention using recessed metal back boxes to contain the joints, with a blanking plate to finish.

Why not use single sockets at these positions to terminate the RFC cables, then spur into back of your proposed outdoor socket?

Apologies if I have misread or have duplicated a suggestion.

 

[Des 56]

Jamie,

Have I got this right:- It was a ring final circuit which has been split and you are now taking one leg to each side of the new patio door, and completing the ring with a new length of cable between the two?

You mention using recessed metal back boxes to contain the joints, with a blanking plate to finish.

Why not use single sockets at these positions to terminate the RFC cables, then spur into back of your proposed outdoor socket?

Apologies if I have misread or have duplicated a suggestion.

Those are sensible suggestions,if it is assumed the ring is a ring,and intact
The op is not an electrician and the likelyhood of the circuit having been tested for addition or alteration will probably be nill

It is the lack of testing and the "stuff the cables anywhere" practices that will probably have disuaded anyone from giving much advise

He seems to have researched some of the practices that would be required,but he tends to give the impression of being well out of his depth,hence why there is reluctance to aid the op

 

[2na]

Des, that's exactly why I think these jobs are not as simple as they look and should be left to the technical electrical heterosexual people we are....

 

[DPG]

Gotta be realistic though - there's people asking about RCDs and god knows what. Joining a cable is going to end up with having a full electrical inspection and a new consumer unit stuffed with RCBOs at this rate. Can't see the problem - he's asking the right sort of questions and if he gets a little bit of advice it should be a safe job and no less safe an installation than it was before. Tin hat on, plus another tin hat to be extra safe. Daz

 

[ArseyDee]

Those are sensible suggestions,if it is assumed the ring is a ring,and intact
The op is not an electrician and the likelyhood of the circuit having been tested for addition or alteration will probably be nill

It is the lack of testing and the "stuff the cables anywhere" practices that will probably have disuaded anyone from giving much advise

He seems to have researched some of the practices that would be required,but he tends to give the impression of being well out of his depth,hence why there is reluctance to aid the op

I too was reluctant to post advice. He was nearly there though with his blanking plate idea. Not much of a leap from that to sockets. Better terminations too.

Yes, loads of other factors to consider. Didn't want to get into those! :smile5:

 

[2na]

I don't agree this forum should be here to help how public do electrical work. I think it should be for sparkles to discuss problems amongst themselves, otherwise, we're just shooting ourselves in the foot aren't we?

 

[DPG]

Which is exactly why it should be in the DIY section, but newcomers to the forum don't necessarily know this. Daz

 

[Dylan De Gruchy]

The best joint to use and that comply with the regs are Crimps/Butt Splices if you want to rebury your cable. If burying underground I recommend a Resin joint.

Sorry if I am mistaken but the box you were intending to use does not seem to be IP rated either.

30A Connector Block could be used if made off into an enclosure, but you seem to be unaware of how much current is flowing through the circuit. This will eventually cause the connector block to burnout if the rating is not correctly matched.

My honest recommendation would be to get a competent person to complete the works, from my understanding of your situation it shouldn't take them long if you tell them the situation.

Kind Regards and Good luck solving your issue!

 

[ArseyDee]

I don't agree this forum should be here to help how public do electrical work. I think it should be for sparkles to discuss problems amongst themselves, otherwise, we're just shooting ourselves in the foot aren't we?

Yes I agree.

But it seems likely that he was always going to tackle the job himself, with or without advice, so some sound suggestions may help to make the work safer.

On the flip side, perhaps no advice is better than a little. An OP could leave with a misguided sense of having full knowledge/competence for the job in hand. We have no idea what other issues there may be, or how competent an OP is at following our suggestions.

 

[DPG]

I don't agree this forum should be here to help how public do electrical work. I think it should be for sparkles to discuss problems amongst themselves, otherwise, we're just shooting ourselves in the foot aren't we?

YOU may not agree, but the DIY section of this forum is exactly for that. Daz

 

[Octopus]

God help us. Mods why isn't this in the DIY section.

In fact why don't you "restrict" all new members to the DIY section, then they can earn their stripes and move into the main forum....

 

[Octopus]

I don't agree this forum should be here to help how public do electrical work. I think it should be for sparkles to discuss problems amongst themselves, otherwise, we're just shooting ourselves in the foot aren't we?

Matey, when you are next sitting around, waiting for the phone to ring, will you be on here offering detailed instructions to the guy, who could be in the next street from you?

I doubt it and the whole point of this forum is for Sparks to share with sparks.....

 

[ArseyDee]

God help us. Mods why isn't this in the DIY section.

In fact why don't you "restrict" all new members to the DIY section, then they can earn their stripes and move into the main forum....

Now that's what I call a good idea!

But, as a member since only Oct 2013, and with just 48 posts, will I need to claim squatters rights on the main forums?!

Let's push Murdoch's idea further. A divisional league structure with promotions and relegations. Yellow & red cards. Bans & fines. League cup competitions for all. Champions league cup for the elite. I'm liking this!!