Fixed Appliance Testing Problems

[Piratepete]

Hi Guys
I had the joy of testing the kitchen appliances in a new rental. The fridge, freezer and washing machine were all free standing under the worktops and couldn't be moved on account of the floor tiling laid down in front of them. Only way to test was at the individual FCUs. I could only use my multitester for earth continuity. The washing machine passed ok, but the freezer metalwork appeared to have a poor earth and the fridge (both Indesit) apppeared to have no earth at all!

Customer massacred the floor and pulled the fridge out. Earth to the compressor was absolutely fine:sick: but there is no link between the compressor and the metal frame of the fridge. Same with the freezer! Any connection is fortuitous, where the compressor pipework might touch the fridge or freezer frame. This is obviously intended. So told customer I'd found a loose earth!

QQ
1. Anyone else had this experience with white goods? Is it right?

2. What do you guys do when you can't plug an appliance into the PAT Tester?

Cheers
Pete

 

[James Ingrem]

We use a seward fastpat tester and yes its tricky, You can do an in situ earth bond test (which you did) and then make up a lead to plug into the socket of your pat tester with a live, neutral and cpc croc clip on it, then you can IR from the FCU!!

 

[davethsparky]

1: Snafu as far as the fridges and freezers are concerned.

2: Isn't it obvious? Test it as a fixed appliance. If it is hard wired to a supply then it isn't portable therefore cannot undergo a PAT. How would you go about testing a portable appliance which has a plug other than a 13A?

 

[davethsparky]

We use a seward fastpat tester and yes its tricky, You can do an in situ earth bond test (which you did) and then make up a lead to plug into the socket of your pat tester with a live, neutral and cpc croc clip on it, then you can IR from the FCU!!

Madness, just use the normal test equipment you use for installation testing.

 

[Pete999]

Check out the new code of practice for in house appliances (PAT testing) not sure but I think the fridges and frezers etc are classed as transportable and subject to PAT testing, but by a skilled person, not a competent person as in irons, drills etc
Pete999

 

[Hundleton1]

What you finding is correct, I used to work for indesit and on fridges/freezers the pot(compressor) an its pipe work is earthed however their is no connection to the metal cabinet, the reason being the cabinet is completely isolated from the electrical system, their is no way for the cabinet to become live with in the system.

 

[oldtimer]

1: Snafu as far as the fridges and freezers are concerned.

2: Isn't it obvious? Test it as a fixed appliance. If it is hard wired to a supply then it isn't portable therefore cannot undergo a PAT. How would you go about testing a portable appliance which has a plug other than a 13A?

I take it you have not been following the threads then although it is called PAT there is no such word it is ISI&TEE and you can test all appliances big small portable stationary fixed so don't fall into the if it has no plug you do not test nonsense

 

[davethsparky]

I know that, it seems my point didn't come across as intended!

I am definately not in the no plug - don't test brigade. My point was that you cannot do a portable appliance test on a non portable appliance but you have to do a fixed appliance test (a FAT if you like?)
My question about testing something with a plug other than a 13amp lug was intended to get the OP thinking about this, not because I don't know the answer.

I am quite familliar with testing kit which has 15A round pin plugs and all the various 3p and 1p ceeforms on, even get to play with stuff with 400A/660A/800A powerlocks on on odd occasions.

 

[Piratepete]

What you finding is correct, I used to work for indesit and on fridges/freezers the pot(compressor) an its pipe work is earthed however their is no connection to the metal cabinet, the reason being the cabinet is completely isolated from the electrical system, their is no way for the cabinet to become live with in the system.

I find this rather strange. The fridge/freezer is not classed as double insulated. Shouldn't the earth be continued onto the fridge frame? Apart from this, it makes it blooming difficult to Earth Test the appliance.

 

[davethsparky]

Only the bits that actually contain electrical connections need earthing, the bits just have an insulated and sheath cable run through them don't need earthing at the cable is double insulated.

 

[ackbarthestar]

I find this rather strange. The fridge/freezer is not classed as double insulated. Shouldn't the earth be continued onto the fridge frame? Apart from this, it makes it blooming difficult to Earth Test the appliance.

That's the art of the professional PATer. Getting to know your way around different items of equipment.

Fridges and freezers are recognized as class I even though there is only a fortuitous contact at different parts of the frame with different models and makes.

As far as inaccessible appliances i can usually get through by disconnecting at the point of local isolation and with the use of various make up adapters, breakout boxes, jump leads and a bit of tweeking here and there get the result that the machine deserves.

We have various clients who have workshop machines, compressors, battery chargers, welders, none of them have standard BS 1363 plugs and sockets. Some are hard wired or on BS EN 60309-2 plugs both the red, yellow and blue types.

As for testing. The only required tests are earth bond and IR to earth for class I and IR for Class II with a VI and a Func T. The rest are there to fill out the certs and make it look as though you are a real professional.

Flash testing is now not required for in house testing of portable appliances although it is extremely useful for proving that a machine is still serviceable, particularly after refurbishment (Motor windings in particular)
The standard recognized test voltage was 3750V but seems to have been diluted to 1500V. The Claire tester will zap your equipment at 5kV which is about as much as you need, if you can pick the bloody thing up and lug it around.

Both my Robins will do all the tests but in most cases never get fully used. My advice do not buy one of these hand held battery operated things as they cannot deliver anything but 100mA.

On the positive side, you can slip your PAT1000 in your pocket and sneak out of your Porche onto a job in your Gucci suit and 5dw cert and start printing out your certs.......

 

[netblindpaul]

Is flex double insulated, remembering that FTE is not, it is insulated & sheathed.
Not something I have thought about, so I would have to check myself...

 

[ackbarthestar]

Is flex double insulated, remembering that FTE is not, it is insulated & sheathed.
Not something I have thought about, so I would have to check myself...

Technically not. The conductor is insulated with a sheath for mechanical protection. The sheath may well have insulating proerties but not recognized as such......

 

[davethsparky]

Ok possibly not technically double insulated but hopefully you can see what I mean. When two core flex passes through the back of a class 2 DVD player with and appropriate grommety thing then the box doesn't get earthed, no different to the metalwork of a fridge when you think about it.

Think of it more like a fixed installation, if it isn't forming part of the enclosure for unsheathed cable and it has adequate resistance to earth then it doesn't need earthing.

 

[netblindpaul]

Thanks ack,
I did not think it was, hence all the wiring running around the appliances under question in the thread is not actually double insulated...
I am taking your info as correct as I have not checked the standards.

 

[Marvo]

What you finding is correct, I used to work for indesit and on fridges/freezers the pot(compressor) an its pipe work is earthed however their is no connection to the metal cabinet, the reason being the cabinet is completely isolated from the electrical system, their is no way for the cabinet to become live with in the system.

This doesn't make sense to me, the hermetic compressor stands on rubber feet that are for absorbing vibrations, they're not classed as insulators.

I remember there was another similar thread about this a while ago but I can't remember the outcome. When I've got time to search I'll post the link.

 

[ackbarthestar]

Thanks ack,
I did not think it was, hence all the wiring running around the appliances under question in the thread is not actually double insulated...
I am taking your info as correct as I have not checked the standards.

Thanks 'net' but always refer to original documentation otherwise you'll end up as those who state: ' well the chap at the trade counter told me it was Ok to stuff this probe up my girlfriend's bottom, how was I to know the regulations recommendation states that it inadvisable to use a Tesla coil internally ?' .......if you see what i mean - lol

 

[netblindpaul]

Thanks 'net' but always refer to original documentation otherwise you'll end up as those who state: ' well the chap at the trade counter told me it was Ok to stuff this probe up my girlfriend's bottom, how was I to know the regulations recommendation states that it inadvisable to use a Tesla coil internally ?' .......if you see what i mean - lol

I would before I put pen to paper as it were on an official document & always do, however, this time of night after the day I've had.
NO CHANCE!

 

[ackbarthestar]

I would before I put pen to paper as it were on an official document & always do, however, this time of night after the day I've had.
NO CHANCE!

It must be in the air - i too have had one of those s**t days - no probes or trade counter encounters either.

:54:

 

[Risteard]

Is flex double insulated, remembering that FTE is not, it is insulated & sheathed.
Not something I have thought about, so I would have to check myself...

No. It is insulated and sheathed. The sheath may be made of an insulating material, but its insulation properties are not tested and it is there simply to provide mechanical protection. Cable is not double insulated.