Showers

[sw-electrical]

Where in the regs does it state that an electric shower requires individual dp isolation, ie a 50A pullcord. The circuit is protected by DP 30mA 63A RCD and 40A SP MCB at the main board.

Reason for asking, i fitted new CU (due to fire damage) and done away with the separate RCD that had been fitted next to the old board. But when testing i realised that there wasn't a pullcord isolator. If i was fitting from new, i would definately install one.

I can't find anything that states this is absolutely necessary, other than for local isolation for maintenance purposes.

Can anyone clarify.

Thanks

 

[telectrix]

is the RCD dedicated to the shower? if not, it would mean isolation of the shower would isolate any other circiuts on that RCD. otherwise, take account of manufacturers instructions. bad practice though, IMO, not to fit local isolation.

 

[sw-electrical]

It would have been prior to the board change as the only rcd was for the shower. Now it is part of Dual RCD split board. As this is only a flat, i've put shower,cooker and lights on one rcd and sockets on other. So at least 1 essential circuit is kept on. I agree this is bad practice, but this is circuit fitted approx 10-15 years ago, when bad practise was considered the norm.

Reg 537.2.1.1 states that the live conductors should be capable of being isolated and that can be done as a group of circuits by a common means.

This installation meets that requirement. I just wouldn't have done it that way.
Just want to be sure i haven't missed a safety requirement.

 

[kingeri]

But it probably specified local isolation in the manufacturers instructions anyway, so really it should have been fitted. Would it be a massive job to add one?

 

[sw-electrical]

No it wouldn't, but customer didn't want to spend his money. This wasn't a planned change for him,(board shorted due to loose connection), he phoned late one night to say electricity board had cut him off, and he had been with out electric for 2 days. I just assumed (mistake) that one was already fitted, so i feel its down to me. If its not safe i'll just fit one.

 

[telectrix]

can't find a specific reg. against this, only the fact that a fault on the shower would take out the other circuits on that RCD, thus causing inconvenience and possible danger , apart from being smelly.

 

[Thomas123]

No it wouldn't, but customer didn't want to spend his money. This wasn't a planned change for him,(board shorted due to loose connection), he phoned late one night to say electricity board had cut him off, and he had been with out electric for 2 days. I just assumed (mistake) that one was already fitted, so i feel its down to me. If its not safe i'll just fit one.

If I couldn't find it in the regs that you don't have to have local isolation, I would leave shower circuit isolated unless the customer agreed. At the end of the day it's your name going on the cert.

 

[Octopus]

As this is a repair I would leave as is and make sure the EIC is clearly stating no isolator and that fitting one would be recommended.

 

[telectrix]

so he's paying circa £350 -400 for a CU and won't pay an extra £50 -60 for a pull cord. tight fisted muppet.

 

[polo1]

As this is a repair I would leave as is and make sure the EIC is clearly stating no isolator and that fitting one would be recommended.

^^^^ ditto.

A bit harsh T, not everyone can find around £400 for expenditure which was not planned!

 

[oldtimer]

^^^^ ditto.

A bit harsh T, not everyone can find around £400 for expenditure which was not planned!

Its all about priorities some people will spend £25k on a car £800 to service it £50 a month to valet it but they will be damned if they are going to pay you £60 to fix a job remember they can be selfish and electrical safety is way down on the list

 

[telectrix]

my point was it's only an extra £50 ish on top of the CU cost. bet same customer don't blink an eyelid on spending £300 for a service on his nearly new BMW though,

 

[ian.settle1]

Sure the is not a DP switch hidden in a cupboard in the bathroom

 

[polo1]

T & O/T - yer just a pair of old synics! I don't disagree that what your're describing exists, just that we don't know sfa about the customer or his/her financial position. Although, if it's a male of advanced years living in Auld Reekie, your probably right:tongue3:.

 

[MDJ]

This one instance where the regs is an ---, no wonder so many sparkies think it is the Minimum standard, very Bad practise IMHO not to have a double pole Isolation unit whether a locally fixed wall switch or pull cord for a shower, ridiculous.

 

[sw-electrical]

so he's paying circa £350 -400 for a CU and won't pay an extra £50 -60 for a pull cord. tight fisted muppet.

Can't remember the last time i got £350 -400 for fitting a CU in my neck of the woods. Some sparkies around here are fitting them for £200-250, but they are using the cheap stuff.

 

[MDJ]

My recommendation SW is to be very professional with your customer and lecture him or her about the merit of a shower pull cord switch, it is almost unbelievable customers will cut corners, however as Murdoch pointed out in an earlier post, I would mention it on the EIC certificate or report, whatever you give them.

 

[rattlehead85]

This has always been a grey area. Normally finding a shower without an isolator/ mechanical switch while on an EICR i will put a C3 code against in for lack of local point of isolation.
Unclear if an isolation switch is present if it needs to be D.P or not if it is on a TN system.

 

[MDJ]

Doesn't need to Be Double pole at all your right rattlehead, only on a TT system, however as mentioned earlier the regs can be an ---.

 

[telectrix]

most showers will have in their instructions that it has to be supplied via a D/P switch with 3mm contact separation.