Which conduit holders for metal conduit?

[HappyHippyDad]

I am going to need to install a small amount of galvanised steel conduit, leading down to perhaps 4 sockets and a light switch. This is in a domestic premise. The customer wants the industrial type look and they want it looking very nice, they are happy to pay the price for this.

I have found 2 different types of wall holders and wondered if these are what are usually used, or if there are more options? Option 1 looks nicer but i don't thin it would work.

1. Brass Munsen Rings 22mm 5 Pack - Screwfix - https://www.screwfix.com/p/brass-munsen-rings-22mm-5-pack/8699V?kpid=8699V&ds_rl=1249404&gclid=Cj0KCQjwz6ShBhCMARIsAH9A0qUCFGWJoYE3Jy86ysR0qEStLGnHKSWH0jAEBEy5YAoRsVUqbJ84G3gaAsiREALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

I realise the munsen ring is 22mm and for 22mm pipe, used for plumbing. Would this still work? I am not sure if pipe used for plumbing is measured the same as electrical conduit, I.e does 22mm mean the diameter of the pipe (as it would in electrical conduit) or the diameter of the hole? I have a feeling these rings would not fit sungly and therefore not work.

2. https://www.electricaldirect.co.uk/...vmCi1fOLSbK9A6DUhD6zEeRSR2M6gy60aAlTUEALw_wcB

Cheers

 

[happysteve]

Distance saddles for the win

 

[pc1966]

The saddles are the correct item to use, but that look a bit crude compared to the plumbing ones which, I guess, are designed for viewing but would not hold the pipe correctly.

Also the right saddle keeps the pipe at the same spacing as typical accessories like conduit junction boxes and metal-clad socket boxes, etc.

 

[Dustydazzler]

Saddles do look a bit Council Car Park , but as above they bring the conduit just enough off the call to marry up nicely to the box and they have a degree of left to right flexibility when fixed to the wall.

I think you can get online galv P-clips for pipe

 

[westward10]

Stainless Steel Metric Conduit System Saddles & Munson Rings | Electrix

Electrix Stainless Steel Metric Conduit Lengths are considered the industry standard by many of the world's leading processing companies.

www.electrixinternational.com

 

[snowhead]

Distance Saddles, or to give them their correct name Hospital Saddles, so you could clea the wall behind them.
Munson rings will be loose on the conduit.

 

[westward10]

Distance Saddles, or to give them their correct name Hospital Saddles, so you could clea the wall behind them.
Munson rings will be loose on the conduit.

The ones in my link won't be.

 

[loz2754]

Distance Saddles, or to give them their correct name Hospital Saddles, so you could clea the wall behind them.
Munson rings will be loose on the conduit.

Distance saddles and hospital saddles are not the same thing. The difference is nicely illustrated in this picture:

 

[pc1966]

The ones in my link won't be.

No, but they might be expensive!

 

[pc1966]

Incidentally, if using nice clean stainless conduit is there any practical way to grip it for threading, etc, that wont leave much in the way of vice marks on the pipe?

 

[ipf]

Incidentally, if using nice clean stainless conduit is there any practical way to grip it for threading, etc, that wont leave much in the way of vice marks on the pipe?

Vice as tight as possible.

 

[Eddy Currents]

Incidentally, if using nice clean stainless conduit is there any practical way to grip it for threading, etc, that wont leave much in the way of vice marks on the pipe?

It must be tight so it doesn't slip which then causes the marking
Or you can do away with threading altogether and use the Conlok range

 

[davesparks]

I've given up on spacer bar saddles these days as the quality has gone downhill so far and only use distance saddles.

 

[davesparks]

Or you can do away with threading altogether and use the Conlok range

If the conduit is intended to be decorative or extremely light duty applications maybe. That stuff is no good in any application where the conduit system can be expected to receive any kind of impact.

 

[Eddy Currents]

If the conduit is intended to be decorative or extremely light duty applications maybe. That stuff is no good in any application where the conduit system can be expected to receive any kind of impact.

Not if installed correctly

It conforms to the same BS ES no as conventional threaded systems and has a longer lifespan due to it being fully galvanised whereas external use for threaded can degrade over time and the thread is normally the weak point

If it will receive that much impact then the saddles will give way before these accessories

You can also mix and match. Using the pre threaded end of tube on one end and conlok on the other

 

[davesparks]

Not if installed correctly

This has not been my experience.

It conforms to the same BS ES no as conventional threaded systems and has a longer lifespan due to it being fully galvanised whereas external use for threaded can degrade over time and the thread is normally the weak point

If installed correctly threaded conduit will last just fine externally.
I'm not sure that Conlok wouldnt allow water in at each joint though.

 

[mart spark]

This has not been my experience.


If installed correctly threaded conduit will last just fine externally.
I'm not sure that Conlok wouldnt allow water in at each joint though.

I believe if you want to maintain IP rating for protection against water ingress then some sealant i.e. silicon has to be used at the joint, however i could be wrong on that. In regards to what type of saddle to use how about the stainless steel clips by D Line?

 

[HappyHippyDad]

Thanks for all the replies everyone.

It looks like distance saddles may be the way to go, although I may offer the choice of the fancy munsen ones that @westward10 posted.

 

[nicebutdim]

It must be tight so it doesn't slip which then causes the marking
Or you can do away with threading altogether and use the Conlok range

I don't believe Conlok offer stainless steel accessories. I could be wrong, but can find only galv accessories within their range.

Not if installed correctly

It conforms to the same BS ES no as conventional threaded systems and has a longer lifespan due to it being fully galvanised whereas external use for threaded can degrade over time and the thread is normally the weak point

If it will receive that much impact then the saddles will give way before these accessories

You can also mix and match. Using the pre threaded end of tube on one end and conlok on the other

Conlok (according to Metpro website) conforms to BSEN61386-21:2004, which I believe has been superceded by BSEN61386-21:2021. I don't have a copy of either standard, but can't help wondering what stipulation it makes with regards to ingress of water. I've used Conlok on quite a few installations now and, while I find myself struggling to argue against its use for indoor installation, can't believe it would afford the same level of ingress protection as its threaded competitor.

There's no doubt that threads represent the weakest point in a conduit installation, but it's not common for conduit to fail at that point. If I fold scrap conduit it will often break at base of threads, but I don't believe this would be a common point of failure in normal service. The worst conduit I've come across was completely submerged and corroded to nothing in places, yet all threaded connections remained sound.

 

[pc1966]

I have seen the conlock stuff and while I can appreciate how easier it is to do (more so given I don't have my own conduit vice/bender...) I would not be very happy relying on the grub screw fixing to make the structure the CPC.

 

[nicebutdim]

I have seen the conlock stuff and while I can appreciate how easier it is to do (more so given I don't have my own conduit vice/bender...) I would not be very happy relying on the grub screw fixing to make the structure the CPC.

I had doubts about this also, but the powers that be deem it to be acceptable. What I will say is that the connection between conduit and accessory is quite good - grubs screws are fine, tighten up well and press conduit firmly against box/coupler, but the supplied hex keys are junk.

 

[Dustydazzler]

Have used ConLok a few times and it is lovelt to work with , no more threading just nip up the grub screw and done.
I did some ConLok in a sport centre and have been back since and while there I did check the grub screws and all were still perfectly tight. Unless modifying some old threaded , I will only use ConLok now for the occasional conduit jobs that I do

 

[nicebutdim]

Have used ConLok a few times and it is lovelt to work with , no more threading just nip up the grub screw and done.
I did some ConLok in a sport centre and have been back since and while there I did check the grub screws and all were still perfectly tight. Unless modifying some old threaded , I will only use ConLok now for the occasional conduit jobs that I do

It wouldn't be my first choice, but is certainly quick to install.

 

[Dustydazzler]

It wouldn't be my first choice, but is certainly quick to install.

I was pretty sceptical when I first installed it, thought it might be a bit flimsy, but if you nip up the grub screws properly then its a pretty solid. I have used the ConLok system twice and on both occasions its been quick, and does the job.
I won't go back to threading unless its for an alteration of an already thread job

 

[ipf]

It may have a use in light duty situations.
Many of us will regularly come across old threaded conduit systems, up to 60 years old. No way ConLok could compare. It will not suffice, nor last, for heavy duty industrial purposes. I still use galv threaded regularly.

Then again....many of us believed, and still do, that MICC was best in loads of instances.........look what's happened there. Shame, but I suppose it's down to cost more than anything........again.

 

[Dustydazzler]

It may have a use in light duty situations.
Many of us will regularly come across old threaded conduit systems, up 60 years old. No way ConLok could compare. It will not suffice, nor last, for heavy duty industrial purposes. I still use galv threaded regularly.

Then again....many of us believed, and still do, that MICC was best in loads of instances.........look what's happened there. Shame, but I suppose it's down to cost more than anything........again.

Time , cost , speed , ease of install , ease of modifying install something like ConLok will win every time.

Will it last 100 years up on a warehouse wall ? maybe / maybe not , I won't be around to inspect it

Probably some young sparks in 100 years time will look at ConLok and say what a load of old tat and have some new funky bendy flexible metal conduit they use to replace it all

 

[ipf]

Time , cost , speed , ease of install , ease of modifying install something like ConLok will win every time.

Will it last 100 years up on a warehouse wall ? maybe / maybe not , I won't be around to inspect it

Probably some young sparks in 100 years time will look at ConLok and say what a load of old tat and have some new funky bendy flexible metal conduit they use to replace it all

Says a true domestic expert.... ......wink.

 

[nicebutdim]

It may have a use in light duty situations.
Many of us will regularly come across old threaded conduit systems, up 60 years old. No way ConLok could compare. It will not suffice, nor last, for heavy duty industrial purposes. I still use galv threaded regularly.

Then again....many of us believed, and still do, that MICC was best in loads of instances.........look what's happened there. Shame, but I suppose it's down to cost more than anything........again.

I guess that's the factor that determines a lot in every industry. The choice between best option and something 90% as good is easily swayed when the 90% option costs 25% more in materials, but saves 30% on considerable labour costs.

A while back I looked into replacing a run of MICC that had shorted after 70 years, as it had been bent to tightly when originally installed. Sadly the cost difference between it and 1.5mm Tuff Sheath was so vast, there was no way to justify the longer lasting option as the only factor in its favour, other than longevity (on a building that will be torn down before Tuff Sheath passes its use by date), was gaining experience of working with it.

 

[Dustydazzler]

I must have been one of the last generation of college students to have to make off Micc as part of the course

In 20-25 years time they new lot won;t have a Scooby Do what Micc / Pyro is / was

 

[ipf]

I must have been one of the last generation of college students to have to make off Micc as part of the course

In 20-25 years time they new lot won;t have a Scooby Do what Micc / Pyro is / was

Probably right there. And any help wanted they'll be whistling for it as far as I'm concerned....

 

[pirate]

An alternative might be to use brass for an improved aesthetic...pricey but nicey!

Antique Brass Conduit

Developed by us and made entirely in Birmingham our solid brass conduit and accessories is exactly what you've been waiting for. The conduit is hand finished and waxed to order in a beautiful antique brass finish.

theworkshopbelow.com

 

[Dustydazzler]

Many years ago we did an art gallery in London using brass conduit , but actually from what i was told and could tell from all the brass conduit and fittings is that they were not indeed Brass but a alloy metal that had been dipped / brushed to look like an Antique Brass.
It was so expensive just the antique brass conduit and fittings ran into the £100,000+ , that was before it was even fitted or wired.
They even had custom made plates and switches to match made by Wandsworth that also ran well over £100,000+
Some people just have too much money to spend...

 

[pirate]

Yes, some folk do seem to have money to burn, but the OP was about a small bit of conduit to a few accessories, and the owners are happy to pay the price, so it may be that the expensive option would suit them on this occasion....and it'd look very nice!

 

[davesparks]

I was pretty sceptical when I first installed it, thought it might be a bit flimsy, but if you nip up the grub screws properly then its a pretty solid. I have used the ConLok system twice and on both occasions its been quick, and does the job.
I won't go back to threading unless its for an alteration of an already thread job

Interesting, how much quicker is it? I've never found the threading of the conduit to actually take all that long.

For me the biggest issue with steel conduit is the bender, getting it to and from site and then trying to find somewhere remotely close to where I'm working to set it up.
If there was a lightweight alternative for bending the conduit that removed the need to drag a hilmor type bender around then I'd certainly give Conlok a go as that would then make my life a heck of a lot easier.

 

[loz2754]

This is a good video showing the pros and cons:

 

[davesparks]

In 20-25 years time they new lot won;t have a Scooby Do what Micc / Pyro is / was

There's a lot of people now who haven't a clue, which is great as I can charge a premium for working with it.

I've got a few drums of it, and boxes of fittings, all acquired for free when people have been clearing out their stores.

 

[Dustydazzler]

Don't know why we just don't adopt the American EMT pipe , its still gives good mechanical protection , you can get loads of speed fit fixings and adapters and it can be bent using a simple plumbers hand pipe bender

 

[davesparks]

Don't know why we just don't adopt the American EMT pipe , its still gives good mechanical protection , you can get loads of speed fit fixings and adapters and it can be bent using a simple plumbers hand pipe bender

It would be helpful to have a regularly available light duty metal conduit like that here.

 

[nicebutdim]

I must have been one of the last generation of college students to have to make off Micc as part of the course

In 20-25 years time they new lot won;t have a Scooby Do what Micc / Pyro is / was

It's still taught, but not part of AM2.