Why do commercial sparks bash house bashers?

[telectrix]

Cause house bashers aren't normally sparks. They are pretend sparks. No Qualifications except they can get it passed off by a spark. Checked and tested. Bring a house basher to an industrial job. Like tray and basket and see how they fair. What about doing a three phase board.
I bet if a piece of unistrut hit they wouldn't know what it was.

then again an industrial spark mayhave trouble lifting a floor board without it looking like a plumber had butchered it up.

 

[James]

Both types of spark can complete a job with skill, finesse and pride.

it is just some choose not to or are not capable.

 

[Electrics]

Cause house bashers aren't normally sparks. They are pretend sparks. No Qualifications except they can get it passed off by a spark. Checked and tested. Bring a house basher to an industrial job. Like tray and basket and see how they fair. What about doing a three phase board.
I bet if a piece of unistrut hit they wouldn't know what it was.

You've just lumped all domestic electricians into 'no qualifications'?

Tray and basket are hardly rocket science either, if you can put a shelf up you can put tray up.

Agree though that there would definitely be an adjustment period since everything is different.

 

[littlespark]

I think in training, every apprentice should get a feel for all sides of the business, whether their company does that sort of business or not… the trainee should get some hands on experience in everything.

There are good and bad sparks on both sides of the fence… and the ones that think they are better than the others are the bad ones. They maybe can’t get their heads round the other type, so avoid that work by saying it’s crap, won’t catch me doing that, this is better etc etc.


Housebashing is cheap work. Developers are looking for a cheap job, done quick. One job, repeated time and time again in different properties.

industrial tends to have multimillion pound budgets, one off designs and meticulous planning.

My last big job was Heathrow Terminal 5.
Spent weeks cutting tray and trunking, running cables. Absolutely no thinking whatsoever on my part.

 

[Electrics]

I think in training, every apprentice should get a feel for all sides of the business, whether their company does that sort of business or not… the trainee should get some hands on experience in everything.

There are good and bad sparks on both sides of the fence… and the ones that think they are better than the others are the bad ones. They maybe can’t get their heads round the other type, so avoid that work by saying it’s crap, won’t catch me doing that, this is better etc etc.


Housebashing is cheap work. Developers are looking for a cheap job, done quick. One job, repeated time and time again in different properties.

industrial tends to have multimillion pound budgets, one off designs and meticulous planning.

My last big job was Heathrow Terminal 5.
Spent weeks cutting tray and trunking, running cables. Absolutely no thinking whatsoever on my part.

Imo self employed bashers get more money though. Hard to find work going for more than £20-25 an hour working commercial for someone else, but working for yourself doing domestic your take home can be significantly higher, especially somewhere like the north east where starting pay is between £15-18 for qualified, experienced men.

I'm also currently on an airport - it's all surface and very easy to run because they tell us exactly where to put everything.

 

[Petej999]

I read it that the OP has got an apprenticeship with a commercial firm. And that he has noticed a difference in work ethic between commercial and domestic.
Either way, I'd guess it's more to do with whoever runs the company than it is the individual tradesmen. There are good companies and less good companies in both fields.

When the person completes the Commercial Apprenticeship, will he be classed as an Electrician? Commercial, domestic or industrial, a laughable situation don't you think?

 

[ipf]

spark house bashers aren't normally sparks. They are pretend sparks. No Qualifications except they can get it passed off by a spark. Checked and tested. Bring a house basher to an industrial job. Like tray and basket and see how they fair. What about doing a three phase board.
I bet if a piece of unistrut hit they wouldn't know what it was

Defining 'housebasher' can be difficult.
Is it a derogatory remark for a lesser regarded fully qualified spark? (mickey take).
Are they fully qualified who do domestic only?
Are they lesser qualified who do domestic only?
Are they unqualified who do domestic only?
What about those who do all types, including domestic?

What about designing and completing a half million pound 'domestic', 3phase installation in a mansion? You still have to do a Part P, if it's a habitable building.

Must I admit that I'm an occasional housebasher, or be proud of the fact? I must admit, helping someone out with a house problem can be quite satisfying.

What is an expert housebasher?
One who does a job correctly and by the book or one who does things as cheap as possible, cut's all corners and couldn't care a to$$?

I'd call it all 'open to opinion'.

 

[Petej999]

T o continue I thought if you completed an Apprenticeship as an Electrician that was it

 

[nicebutdim]

Defining 'housebasher' can be difficult.
Is it a derogatory remark for a lesser regarded fully qualified spark? (mickey take).
Are they fully qualified who do domestic only?
Are they lesser qualified who do domestic only?
Are they unqualified who do domestic only?
What about those who do all types, including domestic?

What about designing and completing a half million pound 'domestic', 3phase installation in a mansion? You still have to do a Part P, if it's a habitable building.

Must I admit that I'm an occasional housebasher, or be proud of the fact? I must admit, helping someone out with a house problem can be quite satisfying.

What is an expert housebasher?
One who does a job correctly and by the book or one who does things as cheap as possible, cut's all corners and couldn't care a to$$?

I'd call it all 'open to opinion'.

They guy who posted that comment is seeking access to the trainee forum, so I'm sure they've many years ahead to gain a better understanding about all aspects of the industry.

 

[Electrics]

They guy who posted that comment is seeking access to the trainee forum, so I'm sure they've many years ahead to gain a better understanding about all aspects of the industry.

I was originally referring to opinions like Keyspark01's which i see very often online, where those working in industrial or commercial settings think less of those who do domestic only.

I'm not going to go for the trainee forum - they want to know what time i go for a dump in order to get access to it. Not really up for giving away personal info to a random online forum ?

 

[nicebutdim]

I'm not going to go for the trainee forum - they want to know what time i go for a dump in order to get access to it. Not really up for giving away personal info to a random online forum ?

Supposed to be a lot of help and useful information available in the trainee forum. I once looked at the access requirements and only remember that verification of college course was required, but could be wrong. It's not unreasonable that they'd want to restrict access to those who are genuinely engaged in training.

 

[Electrics]

They want full name, address and telephone number too. Which is fine, i just don't want to give that out to an online forum.

 

[telectrix]

They want full name, address and telephone number too. Which is fine, i just don't want to give that out to an online forum.

the info you give to dan is confidential.

 

[nicebutdim]

Have you looked at the forum privacy policy? I've no such concerns - especially given how thorough and compliant their cookie policy is.

 

[littlespark]

Us that have been here a while get to access the Electricians Arms... to talk about non public things... (a bit like the Masons i think)

Have to give Dan our credentials for that too

 

[DefyG]

most decent domestic sparks i know, they tend to go the extra mile.

Maybe because domestic sparks tend to be small companies or 'one man bands' that rely a lot more on their reputation for ongoing and repeat work?

 

[telectrix]

most decent domestic sparks i know, they tend to go the extra mile.

the rate at which all the pubs are being demolished/ refurbed into care homes, we all have to go the extra mile. at this rate we'll all evolve into camels.

 

[Petej999]

They guy who posted that comment is seeking access to the trainee forum, so I'm sure they've many years ahead to gain a better understanding about all aspects of the industry.

Certainly hope so Mate, good point though

 

[Dave OCD]

I've done a fair bit of Industrial and Commercial type work over the years but these days it's probably 90% Domestic. I do think that those who sneer and look down on domestic sparks in many cases wouldn't cope with that aspect of the trade or do the work particularly well if they had to.
There's an art to running in cables properly and neatly with minimal disruption or damage to the fabric of the property and you also need to be able to adapt to and overcome ever evolving snags as the work progresses at times. And with some customers you really need the patience of a saint.
It can also be exhausting, whereas although some Industrial work can involve heavy cables everything is fixed surface and easily accessible within reason. I also think that a lot of domestic work can be poorly executed and shoddy but a really good install doesn't stand out as everything is hidden with just accessories on the walls on show.

 

[ipf]

I've done a fair bit of Industrial and Commercial type work over the years but these days it's probably 90% Domestic. I do think that those who sneer and look down on domestic sparks in many cases wouldn't cope with that aspect of the trade or do the work particularly well if they had to.
There's an art to running in cables properly and neatly with minimal disruption or damage to the fabric of the property and you also need to be able to adapt to and overcome ever evolving snags as the work progresses at times. And with some customers you really need the patience of a saint.
It can also be exhausting, whereas although some Industrial work can involve heavy cables everything is fixed surface and easily accessible within reason. I also think that a lot of domestic work can be poorly executed and shoddy but a really good install doesn't stand out as everything is hidden with just accessories on the walls on show.

More so these days, yes. It all depends on the work and conditions, though. Industrial can be tough and much 'dirtier' than domestic.
As a contractor, I used to do work at a silver recovery plant, installation of new machines and services, as well as maintenance. Methods of recovery involved chemicals and the burning of x-ray plates. Never worked in worse condition, working on the burners...black as the ace of spades and absolutely shattered every night. Fault finding on breakdowns was a nightmare, everything covered in black dust and mostly in awkward spots behind the units......plus the almost unbearable heat, whilst masked up.

 

[Grant1987]

More so these days, yes. It all depends on the work and conditions, though. Industrial can be tough and much 'dirtier' than domestic.
As a contractor, I used to do work at a silver recovery plant, installation of new machines and services, as well as maintenance. Methods of recovery involved chemicals and the burning of x-ray plates. Never worked in worse condition, working on the burners...black as the ace of spades and absolutely shattered every night. Fault finding on breakdowns was a nightmare, everything covered in black dust and mostly in awkward spots behind the units......plus the almost unbearable heat, whilst masked up.

I’ve just read through all of these posts and I’m currently a domestic spark (house basher) insult that is. I went from commercial/industrial about 10 years ago and I was clueless at domestic and was taught how to install in the domestic environment I’ve never looked back since with work and £££ to be earned I’ve just done a 2 bed upstairs flat Rewire with my work colleague/friend and earned nice amount for 8 hours work. I then received a phone call from customer saying 2 of his neighbours want a Rewire from myself end of day money talks and this has been the case for past 10 years earnt significant amount more being domestic spark I’m comparison to commercial/industrial also I’ve had to sort out many faults of the com/ind spark could not find ?

 

[Grant1987]

I’ve just read through all of these posts and I’m currently a domestic spark (house basher) insult that is. I went from commercial/industrial about 10 years ago and I was clueless at domestic and was taught how to install in the domestic environment I’ve never looked back since with work and £££ to be earned I’ve just done a 2 bed upstairs flat Rewire with my work colleague/friend and earned nice amount for 8 hours work. I then received a phone call from customer saying 2 of his neighbours want a Rewire from myself end of day money talks and this has been the case for past 10 years earnt significant amount more being domestic spark I’m comparison to commercial/industrial also I’ve had to sort out many faults of the com/ind spark could not find ?

I’ve also contacted tomorrow’s job earlier on to tell them I’m not in work tomorrow only simple jobs of replacing couple lights and pre surveying couple of rewires due to my good days work today I’m relaxing with Jack Daniels and cola. Unlike the com/industrial sparks who are setting their alarm for 6am to ensure they are on time to get dirty and install 21mtrs of tray and walk about 2k during the day

 

[LukeD]

Domestic all the way.Just work for rich people .

 

[littlespark]

I would love to see some more industrial work, but there just isn’t the opportunity around here. Jobs would instantly go to the bigger companies.

Domestic or industrial. One is not better than the other, and as they say- variety is the spice of life.

Now agricultural. You can shove that.

Knee deep in the stinky brown stuff.. chickens pecking at your tools and the customers thoughts of health and safety is putting on a pair of socks with no holes.

 

[SparkySy]

What nooo! You can't bash the agricultural sparks! That is my main business, and I love it more than most seem to! I like the cows scratching on my MEWP making it bounce around! And being knee deep in ----! Or itchy barley in your boots/overalls. I would rather be outside than stuck in a building. And the kit I get to play on is much more fun than lifting floorboards and trying not to wreck Mrs Miggins new rug/carpet/wallpaper. Most weeks I get to play on at least a digger, telehandler or MEWP and sometimes a tractor! Yeah ok I do some domestic but only the jobs that I want to do or as part of my agricultural business.
As I have said before this is such a wide and varied industry, it's good to see as much of it as you can until you find the bit you like best!
Sy

 

[Grant1987]

What nooo! You can't bash the agricultural sparks! That is my main business, and I love it more than most seem to! I like the cows scratching on my MEWP making it bounce around! And being knee deep in ----! Or itchy barley in your boots/overalls. I would rather be outside than stuck in a building. And the kit I get to play on is much more fun than lifting floorboards and trying not to wreck Mrs Miggins new rug/carpet/wallpaper. Most weeks I get to play on at least a digger, telehandler or MEWP and sometimes a tractor! Yeah ok I do some domestic but only the jobs that I want to do or as part of my agricultural business.
As I have said before this is such a wide and varied industry, it's good to see as much of it as you can until you find the bit you like best!
Sy

I totally respect your post I was just aiming my post at the derogatory posts of sparks saying that domestic sparks are of little value we all carry out the same job and same goal. I also (used) to enjoy getting dirty and playing with the big boy toys cherry picker, boom, scissor lift but I also enjoy the domestic aspect so to all the newcomers of the industry try it all gain the experience and do what you enjoy. ?

 

[littlespark]

My anti- agriculture was of course tongue in cheek. Just a little Monday comedy.

I did everything as an apprentice. Just because of my rural location…. It was Mrs miggins on a Monday, Ten thousand chickens on a Tuesday… Windy hillside… well, you get my drift.


I think the “housebashing” isn’t exclusive to sparks. Every trade is pressured to be in and out as quick as you can…. Mistakes get picked up later.
It doesn’t make you a housebasher, it’s just the work is described as bashing.

 

[SparkySy]

Totally, mine was meant in jest somewhat! I do cover a broad range within the industry, including house bashing! Each to their own, I know a lot of sparks that hate ag work but equally I know many that hate domestic, everyone is different and will find their place in the industry, which is lucky really otherwise we would be in a right pickle!!
Much respect to everyone in our industry whichever sector they are in!

 

[Petej999]

My anti- agriculture was of course tongue in cheek. Just a little Monday comedy.

I did everything as an apprentice. Just because of my rural location…. It was Mrs miggins on a Monday, Ten thousand chickens on a Tuesday… Windy hillside… well, you get my drift.


I think the “housebashing” isn’t exclusive to sparks. Every trade is pressured to be in and out as quick as you can…. Mistakes get picked up later.
It doesn’t make you a housebasher, it’s just the work is described as bashing.

There are many people who call themselves Sparks, when all they have done is house bashing after doing a short course.

 

[Intoelectrics]

Cause house bashers aren't normally sparks. They are pretend sparks. No Qualifications except they can get it passed off by a spark. Checked and tested. Bring a house basher to an industrial job. Like tray and basket and see how they fair. What about doing a three phase board.
I bet if a piece of unistrut hit they wouldn't know what it was.

This is not true! not all "house bashers" are the short course bodge it and scarper type!

I know good electricians who can only do commercial/industrial and are clueless when it comes to domestic and vice versa. A good all round domestic sparky has to do a fair bit of problem solving, fault finding and it can be hard graft if the house is occupied or an old building.

Yeah you may get the sparky who does nothing but new builds for housing companies, much like you get some sparkies that only do maintenance on commercial/industrial properties.

There are just levels of skill and capability, where as Tel mentioned, some folk have a better aptitude for certain aspects than others.

Either way, a good tradesperson takes pride in their work, is conscientious and leaves a job tidy, safe and (hopefully) with a satisfied customer.

 

[Grant1987]

There are many people who call themselves Sparks, when all they have done is house bashing after doing a short course.

There are many people who call themselves sparks. When all they have done is cut a few bits of metal and threaded a few nuts after being thrown on site by doing naff all.

 

[7029 dave]

I took a job on in a hospital just qualified back in the early 80's, the boss said to me you are taking this job on (yep no problem), all metal conduit work.
Found out the job was given to me because a much older experienced spark (on more money than me) could not do conduit work.
Dont tell me its only labourers work like someone once told me on here.

 

[ipf]

There are many people who call themselves Sparks, when all they have done is house bashing after doing a short course.

There are many people who call themselves sparks. When all they have done is cut a few bits of metal and threaded a few nuts after being thrown on site by doing naff all.

We know, in both cases....but it's a percentage not ALL of them.
Don't tar all with the same brush just because you come across crap work.

Standards have dropped in general, we should all know that, but fully qualified electricians, no matter what their field, usually know their onions......and should be respected for doing so.

 

[ipf]

I took a job on in a hospital just qualified back in the early 80's, the boss said to me you are taking this job on (yep no problem), all metal conduit work.
Found out the job was given to me because a much older experienced spark (on more money than me) could not do conduit work.
Dont tell me its only labourers work like someone once told me on here.

Complicated conduit can be an art work, with a hell of a lot of skill involved.

Some dunces still think 'sets' are for badgers and 'dog legs' for ...er.?...dogs? Elbows' at every 90, what a mess!

They have their occasional uses but in most cases the best use for an 'elbow' is a heavy nudge in the ribs.

 

[7029 dave]

Complicated conduit can be an art work, with a hell of a lot of skill involved.

Some dunces still think 'sets' are for badgers and 'dog legs' for ...er.?...dogs? Elbows' at every 90, what a mess!

They have their occasional uses but in most cases the best use for an 'elbow' is a heavy nudge in the ribs.

Very true lol the last bit was funny

 

[SparkySy]

I had a similar experience with an older spark when I was coming up through the ranks of a small firm, we were on a library and art Museum, all trunking and conduit very nice job! Anyway it turned out he could not bend tube for love nor money, he even struggled with marking it out correctly, but was great at the trunking work! I ended up doing the conduit work and he did all the trunking in the end!

 

[ipf]

I had a similar experience with an older spark when I was coming up through the ranks of a small firm, we were on a library and art Museum, all trunking and conduit very nice job! Anyway it turned out he could not bend tube for love nor money, he even struggled with marking it out correctly, but was great at the trunking work! I ended up doing the conduit work and he did all the trunking in the end!

Somebody else do the wiring? ??

 

[SparkySy]

Yeah a real electrician ?

 

[ipf]

Once left an apprentice to fix a conduit for a sensor in a school boiler house, 2 saddles up a wall and 3 across the ceiling. Got back about 3 hrs later to find it at a 10 degree angle fixed to the ceiling with the outside 2 saddles, the middle one fixed about 1'' to one side of the tube. I CAN laugh NOW!?
He was in the midst of taking it out, I must admit.

 

[Petej999]

I took a job on in a hospital just qualified back in the early 80's, the boss said to me you are taking this job on (yep no problem), all metal conduit work.
Found out the job was given to me because a much older experienced spark (on more money than me) could not do conduit work.
Dont tell me its only labourers work like someone once told me on here.

I took a job with a large builder in my home town Bath, most if not all of the so called Electricians on site were either labourers or Apprentices near the end of their time, it showed up when we had to wire the carpark lighting with SWA NON OF THEN KNEW HOW TO TERMINATE, got a rollicking for taking the time to show them how it was done, this was in the mid 70s got the Spanish Archer for the job going over time left and continued working as a maintenance Spark.